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L Drum On Gunbroker $$$$


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#1 Deputy 89C6

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:33 PM

I guess some guys haven't received the news.

http://www.gunbroker...p?Item=23305124
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#2 LIONHART

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:39 PM

It's an early Drum, and the value is there..
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#3 gijive

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:44 PM

Deputy89C6,

The drum on GunBroker is a collectible 1930's made drum for the original Colt made Thompsons, not the Auto-Ordnance, West Hurley,N.Y. made drums made in the last thirty years or so. It is generally agreed that the collectible original drums will probably hold their value unlike the West Hurley/Kahr made drums.

The only question about the drum on Gunbroker is whether it is the so-called "3rd Model Colt drum" or the Worchester Pressed Steel Co. version. One can't tell from the pictures shown. Either one is collectible, though, and more valuable than the West Hurley/Kahr versions.
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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 03:29 PM

Because of the poor photographs, the seller refers interested parties to Hill's book, specifically page 332, photo 364. Again, the mistakes in cut lines under wrong photos in Hill's book would provide the perspective buyer with contradictory information. The top pic shows a Colt, while the bottom shows a Worcester, yet Hill refers to these front and back covers as Worcesters'. Only contact with the seller will confirm what it is.

Bridgeport drums are still selling for around a $1000. Unfortunately the demise of the 94 law and the ubiquity of WH/Kahr drums seems to have confused the uninitiated collector about discernible differences in drums and their values.

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#5 Deputy 89C6

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 03:45 PM

I stand corrected. I guess I still have a lot to learn about Thompsons. Up until last year my interest was strictly in old lever action Winchesters. My first L's were two Bridgeport drums that were purchased out of a filing cabinet in a garage...$300.00 for the pair...sold one for $700.00 kept one. I guess I didn't think about the collectable drums staying up there in price after the sunset. Got the pointy hat on....headed for the corner.

Steve
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#6 Grey Crow

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 08:56 PM

From the photo it is noticeable that there are no drain slots on the mounting plates. To bad the seller didn't invest in a lacquer stick from Brownells so the text could be read.

From some of the scratches on the surface it looks as if he attempted to remove some rust.

If the plates read right and its internals are correct the 975 isn't all that bad of a price.

Certainly we all would like the owner to take a pencil to it and sweeten up tha deal a little more.

IMHO
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#7 PATHFINDER

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Posted 22 September 2004 - 07:37 AM

QUOTE (gijive @ Sep 21 2004, 01:44 PM)
It is generally agreed that the collectible original drums will probably hold their value unlike the West Hurley/Kahr made drums.


If the 1994 'High Cap' ban is what drove the prices up then they should be comming down as soon as the initial buying frenzy is over. This is when the price spiked on vintage drums and every gun dealer told us prices were going up on drums in general because 'they ain't makin' any more'. This would be a lie if prices stay high now that they are making more. And if prices stay high when the supply is up, then it's just price gouging.

So what does that make gun dealers?

There may be a small supply of older drums but there is an even smaller number of like dated firearms needing them. Just stop buying them (demand) at artificialy inflated prices and more(supply) will clog the market driving prices down.
How many dealers have we seen with 20 or more drums sitting on thier table while telling us how rare they are? There is a dealer here in Michigan who went out of bussiness rather than lower prices. He is sitting on about 40 drums and will not budge on his price of $1500 each(irreguardless of maker or date).
We all have the power to end 'Thompson Greed' by just sitting tight and not worrying that someone else will have somthing we don't and snaping items up just because they are available.
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#8 TSMG28

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Posted 22 September 2004 - 01:38 PM

One additional factor that could impact the prices on the WWII and earlier drums is the issue of re-importation (discussed in another thread). I have been told that there are known stashes of large quantities of drums just waiting to come home. If the folks who know where they are can indeed get them back into the country, there will probably be a downward push on drum prices for at least a period of time. Eventually, prices of these collectibles will probably head back up as the new supply is consumed.

We will just have to wait and see if these "stashes" materialize in the U.S........
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 22 September 2004 - 02:24 PM

Pathfinder,
There seems to be no lack of willing customers who purchase inferior quality merchandise from Kahr. But you propose to boycott the purchase of quality, no longer produced, parts because they have been "artificially" inflated. There is nothing "artificial" about the superior quality of pre 1945 parts as compared to those manufactured by indifferent companies in the 70's through today. Even before the 1994 ban Colt and Worcester drums were already in short supply and valued appreciably higher than the then currently produced WH drums. So the prices on TSMG drums, aside from the WH/Kahr versions, were not "artificially" inflated by the 1994 ban.

If there exist dealers who prefer to go out of business, and apparently did, rather than sell WH/kahr drums for less than $1500 (would they still be asking these prices post September 2004?) then the market place already effectively weeded them out of the pack.

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#10 PATHFINDER

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Sep 22 2004, 02:24 PM)
There is nothing "artificial" about the superior quality of  pre 1945 parts as compared to those manufactured by indifferent companies in the 70's through today. 

Even before the 1994 ban Colt and  Worcester drums were already in short supply and valued appreciably higher than the then currently produced WH drums. 

So the prices on TSMG drums, aside from the WH/Kahr versions, were not "artificially" inflated by the 1994 ban. 


AF
I never would and never did dispute the superior quality of the earlier drums. That is not the issue here.

But, if the prices were (and rightfuly so) already rising on the Colt etc. drums my question was :why did this steady rise in price take a jump in 1994? This trend should have been unaffected by the ban yet is was.
I also understand no one wants prices on thier collector grade drums to drop but why do we shoot our selves in the foot by throwing cash around to get what we want? It is not the doctors and lawyers buying Thompsons that drive up the prices (as has been often said). They are a small segment of the market. It is the day to day purchasers who have to have every little variation by every manufacturer and fill every little packet and pocket with what they have been told belongs in it that drives market pricing. We have OCD, the dealers know it and they know we will feed at the trough no matter what they throw into it.

Case in point:Parts boxes. Collectors in any field do not buy replicas. They are not the item associated with a time period or persoanality and have no value historicaly. They are fake, like a Mona Lisa painted on velvet. Is it Ok to own a full decked out Tommy with a case and accesories ALL made post 1980? HELL yes, and have fun doing it, but be realistic. The people who buy replicas are not collectors, they are purchasers and horders(like me;)) but not collectors. This is tanamount to someone with a 'Nordic Trak' saying he is a cross country skier when he has never set foot in snow.

As for the dealer who was asking $1500 for WH, Seymor drums. Is he still asking this price for them post ban? The answer is yes. He stands by his 1994 price inflation irregardless of market trends. 'Mikey G's Weaponry' (see his adds in SGN) still thinks that WH drums are worth $1000. Artificialy keeping the 1994 price spike going. Give him a call and have a good laugh.
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