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#1 michael

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:46 PM

Shooting the model 28 today. tat-tat-tat everything is running good. Then a round chambers but doesn't go off. I remove the magazine and pull back the bolt, but the round stayed in the chamber. It fell right out when gently tapped with a cleaning rod. I don't think the extractor engaged the round. There was a shiny spot where it hit the back of the cartridge, but that was it.

So what is the cause?

I put it away for the day until I could get some advice from the board.


Thanks!!!!

Michael

my savage
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#2 gijive

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:16 PM

Check the extractor to make sure that it didn't break.
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#3 Chip

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:36 PM

Michael,
Nice looking gun.

Might also check the firing pin for possible breakage, or check out the entire bolt assembly for dirt or girt.
Did the primer have a good firing pin hit? If your using reloads, could have been a high primer that was not seated or hung up on the bolt face.

good luck
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#4 michael

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:45 PM

New factory ammo and the primer wasn't touched in the slightest bit.

Thanks

Michael
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#5 Chopper28

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:47 PM

Check recoil spring, extractor, firing pin and spring.
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#6 21 smoker

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 04:46 PM

One other thing to check, see if any shell debris is lodged in the chamber causing the loaded round to not fully seat,hammer won`t contact the reciever front and firing pin remains untouched...this even happens on my Reising, as well as my Thompsons...hth.. wink.gif
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#7 michael

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 06:03 PM

Where can i find a procedure for checking the recoil spring, extractor, firing pin and spring. I do have a complete bolt and recoil spring from a 28 parts set. I could just try those. Or use them for comparison.


Should I just change the springs as a routine sort of thing?

Thanks
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#8 gijive

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 06:56 PM

michael,

Sorry, I guess I didn't read the original post carefully enough. I assumed the round had gone off but didn't extract. If the firing pin didn't touch the primer, then the posts after mine explained the proper procedures, i.e., broken firing pin, round not seated properly, etc. Good luck, let us know when you determine the problem.
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#9 michael

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:39 PM

I am still wondering... how do you know when a spring needs replacing. I would think over the years they wear out.

The gun has been hardly used for about 8 years. Before that I don't know how much it was fired over the years.

Any rule of thumb about when to change springs. unsure.gif

I checked the chamber and it looks good.

I'll check it all out this week and try the gun again.

Michael
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#10 Kevin

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 10:16 PM

I think I saw some where that the recoil spring should be 10.5 inches long. If the spring is shorter (1/2 inch?) it should be replaced. Just off the top of my head, there may be better info in the FAQ. Kevin

Edited by Kevin, 26 September 2004 - 10:17 PM.

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#11 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 11:38 PM

My 2 cents worth... Check the round... 45 ACP headspaces on the front of the case... if the front of the case is crimped, or to short, then the shell will slide in to far to have the firing pin set her off.... Just a random thought....
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#12 michael

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 07:03 PM

Sorry for the long post... But I don't know anyone here locally with a thompson to compare notes with.

I installed a new wolff spring in the gun and inspected and cleaned the bolt. Everything seems to be OK. I test fired the gun today with the new spring. The operation was improved, but still every once in a while the gun takes a round and puts it in the chamber, but doesn't seat it all the way. The extractor comes to rest on the end of the round. Pull the bolt back and tilt the muzzle up and the round falls right out.

I tried a number of magazines and every once in a while (1 out of 20) this failure would occur. It occurs in both single and full auto, but never during a burst. It only happens on the first shot. So pull the trigger and fire off 3-4, fine. A couple of singles, fine. Then pull and pop, the extractor stops on the back of the round. Clear jam and again works ok for a while then pop. Sometimes two failiures in a row, but never a failure once the gun in running.

When the failure occurs i do notice that the bolt stops further back in the receiver then I think it should. Sometimes it definitely stops further back then the "cocked" position.

This was new factory ammo. On the brass of the rounds that failed there is a rub mark of some sort. Midway down the round a rough line on the brass, covering about 1/4 the circumfrance of the round. I carefully inspected them all before fring and there was no mark present.

When I inspect the chamber everything appears clean and clear. The one thing I did notice is what looks like a very slight step where the barrel meets the receiver on the left hand side. Is it possible that this catches a round everyonce in a while? Perhaps during rewatting the barrel was reinstalled wrong?

Also when reassembling I noticed that the oiler doesn't sit exactly flush in the rear of the receiver. This casue the buffer to be slighlty misaligned in the gun. In fact I can see a slight rub mark on the side of the cavity in the actuator which I think is casued by the off center buffer.

Any ideas would be appreciated, perhaps I should get it checked out by PK...

Thanks so much, once again sorry for the long post. huh.gif

Michael

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#13 colt21a

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 07:37 PM

mike its a faulty gun sell it quick for about $10,000.00 or less..i am sure somebody here will give it a good home,wink!!

not me.i'm happy with my mp-40..........but sell it quickly no problem's,no jamming ,no new spring's or replacement bolt.extractor, oh wait did i tell you just now what maybe wrong.nevermind SELL IT!!

and get a good wes-hurlee..........

ron
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#14 michael

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:00 PM

now now Ron, I'll stick with it till it runs right!!

I'll never part with my thompson...

Thanks for the advice...


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#15 colt21a

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:04 PM

QUOTE (michael @ Oct 31 2004, 08:00 PM)
now now Ron, I'll stick with it till it runs right!!

I'll never part with my thompson...

Thanks for the advice...

somehow i already knew that..stay safe,and healthy.ron
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#16 Chip

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:53 PM

Michael,

Just Brainstorming but,

Before I polished my feed ramp (at the suggestion of some of the other board members here), my WH did the same thing if I didn't put something like gunslick grease on the feed ramp before I fired it.

Rough feed ramps I think are a westie thing, but maybe during the rewat something got left rough. A quick check might be to lightly grease the feed ramp and try it to see if it fixes the problem. After I polished the ramp it runs like a champ without the grease.

I've also bent a firing pin that sometimes did not fully retract into the bolt which hung shells on the rim. After that I got in the habit of working the hammer and firing pin assembly with my fingers several times before I reassembled the gun.

The other thing I'd check is a burr or sharp edge on the inside lip of the bolt face. With the bolt out of the gun see if a shell will slide into the bolt without hanging up.

Just some thoughts,
Good luck




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#17 TSMGguy

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 10:02 PM

Send it to PK and get it sorted out within an inch of its little life! There are a lot of factors at play here and he's an expert at getting them all to jive. Take care!
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#18 michael

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE
Ah-ha! It finally comes out that it's a West Hurley!


Sorry TSMGguy, I have nothing against the westies, but its an early 1928 savage. I think any of these guns (maybe even colts biggrin.gif ) can give us trouble from time to time...

Chip, possibly though someting like this happened during a barrel change during rewatt. I will look into the gunslick.

The bolt is clean. The shells slide right in...
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#19 JimFromFL

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 07:49 AM

Has a new barrel been installed? If so, it is probably a repro.

If not, check for something slowing down the bolt including the spring, part of the mag, or even from the sear not being depressed far enough.
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#20 pvmain

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 10:30 PM


Bought a new 1927 in '75 or '76. When the bolt ran forward the extractor would ram right throuh the rim. I discovered that there wasn't clearance machined into the reciever to allow the extractor to snap over the rim. My fix was to file or grind several thousandths off the top of the extractor, allowing it to snap over the cartridge rim. Problem with this '28 may be something similar, possibly due to re-wat welding . I have '21A and have never had this type of problem with it. Hope this helps.





















































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