15 replies to this topic

[deerslayer]

Guys, please rest assured I'm not looking to break any laws and I'm not going to buy one of these, but wanted to pass along the following emails we had back and forth for comment.

Thinking optimistically, maybe a legal way to get them imported could be found for the benefit of all.

Advice hardrede, could some outfit like sarco do this?
Dan


Hello Dan!
I can tell you the way to bring it in to the US. At first we send you a drum without any inner parts, just the box (it's not illegal). And several days later we send you all the inner parts (it's also not illegal). This way really work.
Thank's, I'll try to contact Sarco.
Looking for future cooperation,
Oleg

Oleg, Those are nice looking drums. After consulting people here, it
>appears it would not be legal for me to have them imported without lots of
>paperwork.
>Perhaps I could suggest contacting Sarco.com as they seem to have a great
>deal of experience with importing guns and parts, perhaps a partnership
>could be made and then it would be possible to buy them.
>Thanks
>Dan Block
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ov-r@yandex.ru [mailto:ov-r@yandex.ru]
>Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 3:27 PM
>To: danlaura@rconnect.com
>Subject: Thompson SMG 50 Round L Drum Magazines
>
>
>Hello!
>Sorry, can't tell you anything about WPS, the most drums are marked like at
>the photos I'm sending to you (with a little difference):
>
>If you have any further interest, please get back to me.
>Thanks,
>Oleg
>

[deerslayer]

Hardrede, I'm not trying to yank your chain or anything like that. I assumed that it wouldn't make any difference if the drum was taken apart and sent in pieces either (it was just kind of funny to read what he suggested, I thought someone here might get a laugh). I just like asking questions and finding out answers. I suggested that he contact Sarco and IMA. Maybe the geniuses there can find some LEGAL way to import and sell them here.

[Norm]

Speaking of yanking peoples chains....

Avoid this guy like a hornet's nest, or you may end up in chains in the federal pen!

Norm

[Ron Mills]

I agree. We want you to remain a free man, Dan! Wood shop in prison is probably a real drag. I'd imagine the ATF monitors this board, too. Sounds like Oleg is looking out for...Oleg. Aw, you know those Ruskies! Wasn't this guy putting "dummy" PPSh-41's on eBay some time ago?

Ron

[SecondAmend]

The Internet is international so Oleg may be able to sell in some countries. We get the ads here. We just have to ignore them (or pay the consequences).

[Bob B]

I, too, had contacted "Oleg" to advise that importation of the drums would probably be illegal. Like Dan, I suggested he get in touch with a gun parts importer here in the US to find out if a way could be found to get the drums here legally. This was his reply (received this morning).

Hello Robert!
Thanks for the information. I'll try to contact some licensed gun dealers, who have experience with importing guns and parts, perhaps a partnership could be made and then it would be possible to buy them legal in US.
Best regards,
Oleg


While "Oleg's" trustworthiness may be another story, I really don't see the harm in communicating and asking reasonable questions. I see no reason why any regulatory agency would infer from my communication OR from Dan's - or for that matter from "Oleg's" responses - that we were doing anything other than trying to encourage LEGAL importation of the drums. I'm a law-abiding citizen, and I suffer a lot of the sometimes idiotic rules and regulations without too much complaint because I AM law-abiding. However, I'll be damned if I'm going to vette every word I say or email I send with the "thought police" just because someone somewhere might (mistakenly) think that I'm entering into some kind of criminal conspiracy. This is, after all, America (or at least I hope it is)!

[Ron A]

In the last 40+ years we have seen smarter people with more money, and willing to purchase more than "one" drum at a time attempting to bring items in which are not allowed.

If there was any way, the drums would have been here many years ago. The Ira Trasks of the world would have done so, and sold them long ago. The world is full of M1s in new condition as well as other items which will never see the US again.

"A true wet dream" but something to do for the terminable bored!

[wildwilly2002]

Gentelmen things maybe starting to change a little bit. I believe I read somewhere the words (presumptive aproval). I personaly seen unissued M1A1 parts kits that I was told where legaly imported from Russia. I,ll say it again Russia! And that a permit has been requested to import 28 kits from Great Britain. SO.... if this is true why not the drums? After all high cap mags are no longer illegal. Look what we are able to do with the group buy. Hope this dos'nt start a new sh.. storm just my 2 cents worth.

[Bob B]

If it makes you feel better - YOU WIN!!! Don't know why yer knickers are in such a knot anyway, since neither I nor anyone here ever disagreed with you that the drums are illegal to import or to own. Okay, so they're illegal, and I agree with you, does that mean I can get ten years for telling Oleg so and counseling him to seek legal means for their importation? Give me a break! Maybe he'll find out that it IS impossible to obtain import approval from ATF, DTC, or whomever, but why is it so wrong for him to even try?

I'm not questioning your credentials as an authority on this area of the law, but unless you're the Federal official who's going to actually make the yea or nay determination on whatever import application may or may not result from Oleg's inquiries, I really don't understand why you're so exercised about it. Don't know about you, but I'VE certainly got better things to do than try and convince the world that nothing can under any circumstances be legally imported from Russia - ever. A year ago no one thought we'd be organizing a group purchase of new production L-drums either, yet here we are.

[427sohc]

i am starting to wonder about this.what about all the ak parts from russia?they have been coming here for years and noone ive heard of has goten in trouble.if it was illegal wouldnt the atf of stoped it by now? I could be wrong please fill me in. thanks.

[Bob B]

Hardrede,

This isn't to carry on any kind of argument , since I never disagreed with you in the first place, but the import/export-related Code section you posted in your other thread states as follows:

(a) It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses, other approvals, exports and imports of defense articles and defense services, destined for or originating in certain countries. This policy applies to: Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Byelarus, Cambodia, Cuba, Estonia, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Mongolia, North Korea, Romania, Russia, South Africa, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine Uzbekistan and Vietnam.
(You highlighted Russia and Ukraine in your original post, and I highlight Romania here.)

In your response above you stated that the legally imported AKs are Polish, Romanian, and Czech. Wouldn't the fact that there are huge numbers of Romanian AKs and parts being imported and sold indicate the no-import policy set forth above is at least SOMEWHAT flexible? After all, if the above-stated regulation were hidebound and enforced to the letter, imports from Romania SHOULD be just as illegal as those from Russia.

Believe me when I say I'm really not trying to play a game of "gotcha" here, but I think you'd concede this as a valid point. Unless the legally imported Romanian AKs were perhaps transferred first to a country not on the no-import list, it indicates that the DOS/DTC has SOME discretionary authority. If that's the case, why couldn't the same discretion be exercised in permitting imports from Russia? If the AKs WERE transferred to an "okay" country first, and imported from there, why couldn't the same be done with Russian goods?

Bob

Edited by Bob B, 04 October 2004 - 11:40 PM.

[Sgt]

It occurs to me that Thompson drums and parts are lend lease and Ak47s are not. Wouldn't that make an invalid comparison when discussing what can be approved under our importation laws? Maybe lend lease items do not have the same importation flexiblity that we see in certain foreign made parts that you mentioned.

[Bob B]

Sgt,

That might indeed make a difference, but if that's the case it goes beyond the information that hardrede provided in his post titled "Russia and Defense Articles / This should about cover it". The Lend Lease aspect is very probably another obstacle to legal importation, but it still doesn't explain the exception that was evidently carved out to allow importation of Romanian AKs in apparent contravention of the DOS/DTC policy cited in support of the position that NOTHING could be imported from Russia.

Bob

[deerslayer]

Hardrede, your last two paragraphes about the 5 year sit are I think the most informative part of this ongoing discussion. I wonder if the parts kits guns sat some where for 5 years (how this doesn't start a new one)?

Thanks for all your valuable input.
Dan

[Bob B]

Okay, THAT explains it! This thread has truly been an education - thanks for the clarification hardrede. All I can say about our convoluted "Catch 22" type system is what the Russian actor in those old motel commercials used to say - "Vhat a country!"

[TSMGguy]

There's a site that I think you guys might really enjoy. Have a look at:

http://www.tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru

Appearently, everything he has is shipped to the buyer, USPS priority mail, from Houston, TX!