Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

St Valentines Masacre & Al Capone


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 96lt1ss

96lt1ss

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Home of the St Valentines Day Masacre

Posted 05 October 2004 - 11:09 PM

St Valentines Day Masacre Weapons



By the way if you don't have good Spyware software make sure you check NO if it ask to install Gain.
  • 0

#2 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4584 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 06 October 2004 - 08:05 AM

Very nice indeed. Thanks.
  • 0

#3 21 smoker

21 smoker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1333 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West coast ,FL
  • Interests:collecting nfa, old cars, huntin` n fishin`, reloading ammo

    NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR
    MVPA RESTORATION MEMBER
    MARINE CORP LEAGUE PISTOL TEAM MEMBER

Posted 06 October 2004 - 10:35 AM

Well done!...what a great set of pics...that must have been a thrill to hold such an historical pair of 21s...thanks for the post... wink.gif
  • 0

#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 October 2004 - 11:12 AM

Is it likely that the FBI case was Burke's considering that the Massacre occurred in 1929 and the FBI didn't even procure TSMG's until 1935? Why would there exist an FBI "style" case six years before the FBI even had TSMG's in their armory? Also, the provision for the parts box in the top of the case seems out of period.

Since we now know that the parts box was not even into production until late September, 1928, and the kits were not even delivered until December of 1928, it also seems unlikely that there would be a case made to accommodate the kit available to the public only two months later. Now this brings up the question as to whether the hold section on the top of the case was originally made for the shot shell mag and not the spare parts box.

  • 0

#5 Ron Mills

Ron Mills

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the road, Glenn Miller Orch.
  • Interests:All Thompson models and accessories

Posted 06 October 2004 - 11:34 AM

Wow, great pics indeed. Nice little documentary there. I noticed the trombone case next to the Thompsons on the gun rack. I know a few trombone pickers that could kill somebody with their awful playing. Maybe it finally happened!

Ron Mills

  • 0

#6 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 06 October 2004 - 12:31 PM

Arthur,

Good analysis about the case having the provision for possibly a shot magazine originally, instead of the spare parts kit. I follow the Chicago gangster stuff fairly closely and I believe that the case was in fact recovered at Burke's house in Michigan. In fact, period photos of the guns and drums found, I believe, show the case in the picture. Let me do a little more research on this and see what I can find out. I'll get back to the list on that aspect of the guns and their recovery.
  • 0

#7 Grey Crow

Grey Crow

    RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 1077 posts
  • Location:North Central Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Thompson Submachine guns, computers, reptiles.

Posted 06 October 2004 - 02:58 PM

Actually the owner of the site mentioned is one of our board members!




  • 0

#8 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 06 October 2004 - 03:13 PM

Arthur,

The photos I was thinking about do not show a police type case in the pictures. There are two suitcases in the photo showing the guns and drums at the time of recovery, but no police case. I would have to agree with you about the FBI type type case probably not being available at the time the guns were recovered. Since one of the guns was held at the FBI Headquarters for years before being returned to Berrien County, who knows if maybe the FBI didn't send it back with one of their old cases. The Berrien County Sheriff's Department may have acquired the case sometime during the 1930's also. Good observation, however!
  • 0

#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 October 2004 - 03:55 PM

G.I.,
Thanks for checking your pics. Your explanation for the inclusion of the FBI case with Burke's TSMG's seems the most logical.

  • 0

#10 Ron Mills

Ron Mills

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the road, Glenn Miller Orch.
  • Interests:All Thompson models and accessories

Posted 06 October 2004 - 04:02 PM

Is there a way of checking with the FBI in D.C. to see if they did send the gun back in one of their old cases? Anybody have any connections?
  • 0

#11 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 06 October 2004 - 04:27 PM

Enough folks here already analyzing these pix...I'll just say "Thanks"!!

john laugh.gif
  • 0

#12 John Jr

John Jr

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1956 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mena, Arkansas, USA
  • Interests:Plenty

Posted 06 October 2004 - 09:26 PM

You gotta admit this is one SCARY DUDE here:

user posted image

Whew! laugh.gif
  • 0

#13 colt21a

colt21a

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3480 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:arizona desert.
  • Interests:Whatever we can do in Life

Posted 06 October 2004 - 10:25 PM

is that colt 21a??wink!!

i know who it is.r.m.from iowa..take care,ron
  • 0

#14 45wheelgun

45wheelgun

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 33 posts

Posted 07 October 2004 - 04:49 AM

OK, I am back...after 2 hours of looking at that site. Thanks, what a great link. Makes me want to take a trip to Chicago.

Thanks again for the link
  • 0

#15 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4584 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 07 October 2004 - 08:00 AM

That FBI case looks just like the one I have. To the T. Cool.
  • 0

#16 96lt1ss

96lt1ss

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Home of the St Valentines Day Masacre

Posted 07 October 2004 - 08:13 AM

A few years back I went on a tour of haunted and famous places here in Chicago; one of the places they drove by was the site of the masacre. It is now a senior care facility and they claim to have many strange sightings and noises in some parts of the building. They show you the house across the street where the lookout was, there really wasn't anything to see but it was still kinda cool.

They also took us to what is now a bar but used to be a funeral home Al ran. You can even go down into the basement and see some of the stuff still there.
  • 0

#17 Grey Crow

Grey Crow

    RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 1077 posts
  • Location:North Central Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Thompson Submachine guns, computers, reptiles.

Posted 07 October 2004 - 11:30 AM

I was amazed at the amount of sites out there that revolve around the 20's. That is where my main interests lay.
One day maybe when I go to the TCA shoot I can zip over to Chicago for a quick peak around.
I have a small piece of the garage where the massacre happened. Not of the wall itself but from the building.
At any rate, I enjoy the site and the links, leads me to look for more books on the topic..
  • 0

#18 chitowngangster

chitowngangster

    Outlaw History Expert - Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2004 - 01:36 PM

Yes indeed !those weapons were a thrill to hold. Author Rick Mattix(you know the man Colt21a) and i had an awesome time there thanks to Hardrede(Randall Ellsworth).This guy is an A1 human being who took the time to help me achieve the Zenith of my gangster collecting hobby.I was always interested in the St.Val Massacre along with Capone.The Berrien County officers were A1 and treated us royally.
By the way i'm told the guns are displayed in glass cases for two weeks in August at the county fair for others to see.
That private viewing was a special privilege i will remember forever.

Thank-you very much Randall (Hardrede)!

John's right Arthur.You anal-ize too much laugh.gif
  • 0

#19 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2004 - 03:58 PM

QUOTE
John's right Arthur.You anal-ize too much


Chitown,
If you are only interested in things on their most superficial level and don't have the curiosity, or inclination, for analysis, then how did you develop an interest in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre in the first place?

Are you saying that you immediately dismissed the case as not original to the collection of Burke's Thompson's' and L drums when you saw the display? Or is that you don't like to consider these incongruous features if they get in the way of a good story?

  • 0

#20 chitowngangster

chitowngangster

    Outlaw History Expert - Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2004 - 04:15 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Oct 9 2004, 03:58 PM)
QUOTE
John's right Arthur.You anal-ize too much


Chitown,
If you are only interested in things on their most superficial level and don't have the curiosity, or inclination, for analysis, then how did you develop an interest in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre in the first place?

Are you saying that you immediately dismissed the case as not original to the collection of Burke's Thompson's' and L drums when you saw the display? Or is that you don't like to consider these incongruous features if they get in the way of a good story?

No Arthur, i was just very appreciative to even get the chance to see the guns.I didn't want to put everything under a microscope like you do.As John said it best the photos were simply put up there for everyone to enjoy and that was my main objective.If you must analyze and criticize at every turn it makes people weary of posting anything up.
Can't you just say wow! nice photos and leave it at that.I don't really care about the case.From my perspective the main idea of the trip was the guns not the case.
Yes, i treat the massacre with curiosity and interest, but i don't think the killers used the case to kill the seven members in the garage thus my lack of interest in said case.Now from your point of view being a nitpicking afficianado on thompsons and their accoutrements i can understand it,but for just once can't you just let people enjoy it without nitpicking on secondary details?I enjoy my hobby as i'm sure you do yours, but it's not my life's priority so lighten up amigo. wink.gif

Edited by chitowngangster, 09 October 2004 - 06:22 PM.

  • 0