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Knob Creek Report


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#1 TD.

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 09:11 AM

I spent Friday at the Knob Creek Show and Shoot. It was great meeting Greg Fox. We had a good conversation on Thompsons. He had a display that contained an original spare parts kit and Gordon's reproduction spare parts kit. It was very interesting seeing the kit boxes side by side. His Thompson cases are fantastic. If you need a case, I highly recommend speaking with Greg. I may have to have one of those Indiana cases some day…

The first booth I entered as I walked up the road to the main show contained a 28 Navy Colt Thompson (NO 9477) with 50 round drum for the cheap price of $30,000. It was still on the table when I left Friday night. I did see a couple of 1928 Hurley’s for sale. One was listed as a C &R machine gun for $12,000. I asked the dealer about the C&R status and he told me something had recently come out from BATF on the 1928 Hurley’s regarding C&R status. Hmmmm.

Dennis Todd also had a 1928 Hurley for $14,000. Dennis had 3 MIA1s in the $17,000 price range and an AO and Savage 1928 (I did not hear the price on these). Dennis had the most Thompsons at the show. A dealer from Illinois who was at the last show had several of his completely refinished Colt Thompsons priced at $22,000 – up from the April show when priced at $17,000. These are the Thompsons that were involved in a fire in 1988 at the Buffalo Rock Shooting Range & Ammo Supply in Illinois.

I did not see anything in the way of drums for sale at great prices. Actually, no one had a pile of new drums for sale. Bridgeports priced between $850 and $1200 were common; a WH C drum for $1500, a WH 10 rounder at $189 (I really got a kick out of that one). The 50 round WH’s were still priced in the $500 range and up. No deals or specials were available on Friday.

I know other board members will be there today and Sunday. Maybe we can get some follow-up reports. It was great time; I would encourage everyone to try to attend a show.

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#2 colt21a

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 10:31 AM

that is the fire /really explosion i lost the mp-38 in...sad day sparky was a good friend of mine....i handled the claim on that one...nobody was ever convicted of that crime,{well the person involved died of cancer during the investigation}thanks for the knob report,sounds like T.G. is in full bloom at the creek!! wink!

take care,ron
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#3 Hawkeye_Joe

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 10:37 AM

Maybe next year ...I've never been to a MG shoot/show like Knob Creek.. I'll bet I'll look like a kid in a candy store.. laugh.gif
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#4 Brickyard

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 11:16 AM

What TD said ...

There were a few but all were in that 12-30k range. There were some good parts kits but no deals, obviously. I did see one C drum for $1200. Other "vintage "L's" were normal ... 600-1000 depending. Did see one new AO L for $350, in the box.

New barn is nice. There's even light now to see crap. And, there was a lot of crap. Ya just gotta dig through it. I got a couple goodies, paid too much, what else is new.

Good show. I'll always go if I can. FRIDAY is the day. A LOT less people.
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#5 2dogsfightin

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 12:45 PM

I was there on Friday also.. I looked around saw the 1500.oo C drum, bought a M1 bolt for my M1A1 from Sarco (75 bucks if anyone is interested..)... Bought a couple of really nice 30 round sticks for 10 bucks apiece and the guy had more i just didnt need them. Dennis Todd had 6 thompsons on his table. Could not find any kind of good deal on 45 ammo.

Two miniguns were on the line.and they ran almost every time the line was hot. But only for a few seconds each time. MAN those things can spit out the lead. It is one of those sounds that you CAN NOT describe to someone. They must hear it for themselves. If Napalm SMELLS like Victory. A minigun SOUNDS like Victory. I'm sure Carey owns a minigun but he is only useing a postban 10 round mag........

I overheard this outside the Ammunition Store tent......as I walked up.

One guy to his buddy. "Yeah I was thinkin about buying a case of it,but some guy walked up and bought the WHOLE F***'IN PALLET" I thought that was a good quote for the day..welcome to machineguns pal.

2dogs,,, out

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#6 TD.

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 04:10 PM

Ron,
From what I understand, it was one big explosion and fire that did result in the death of three people. I was seriously considering buying one of these Thompson’s during the last show because I was looking for a shooter grade Colt Thompson. However, I felt it strange that one dealer had 3 reblued almost identical Colt Thompsons. I asked eight different ways trying to obtain the history and background on these guns and never received a straight answer. When I returned home that night I found the answer in Gordon’s book. In a later telephone conversation with the dealer I again attempted to obtain the background on these Thompsons. I received the same answers of “had them for years” and all the original finish was gone. When I mentioned the fire and explosion at Buffalo Rock the dealer finally admitted to the past history – but stated the guns were not really burned – it was all smoke and water damage. When I asked why the original wood was replaced, I was told the original wood did burn up in the fire because the wood was stored in another building away from the guns. I could go on and on with this but let me end it here by saying it would be unwise for anyone to purchase a Colt Thompson from an unknown dealer or source without first looking the gun up in Gordon’s book. For those who are in the market for a Colt Thompson, I suggest you spend 200 bucks for one of the best Thompson Books on the market – or find someone with a book to do a little research for you. If not, you could end up with an expensive TommyGun that had been involved in a fire. The thought of putting that receiver up to my face and pulling the trigger on a drum dump was just too much.

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#7 colt21a

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 04:53 PM

i was involved with the investigation{through my insurance agency} one emplyoee her first day on job.and sparky and his daughter..i know all the sordid detail's....

i had the listing of gun's someplace of what went up in it all.there were a few navies and some military thompson's.a few mg-42's and 34's.....and the mp-38....

i still have a few pics of it...the oldest daughter still runs the place now...the wife now resides in az.

it was big news then.....and the truth will never be told{unless somebody writes a "crime story"

roger{sparky} was buried.....few bone remain's..with his beloved mauser broomhandle,>last wish interned in the casket...and the 28 navy he owned [from white line transfer company in the 30's..}cased set.was sold to a downstate class three dealer for $3,000.00...........

i had the dib's on that from the family..however it was snatched from under me from the son....he is now gone:motor cycle accident...

i ended up with a sp-1 ar-15 3 digit number gun for my service's and a few other item's....since sold to a buddy in indiana>frank watson.who is now deceased.....

{sad fact}everybody i had dealing with over 30 years ago 90% are all gone.}the circle of life and a m.g.dealer!!

its nice that something did survive the blast!!

if those colts could talk....

i am sure gordon has those numbers,when he came to visit in the nineties..i gave him a bunch of number's...."good time's"

thanks for the info on seeing some illinois history,tho macabre.wink!! take care,ron
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#8 96lt1ss

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 05:16 PM

Ron, I was told it was a spark from an electric cord or light of some kind while he was reloading. Can you confirm if this was the case or if it was never actually determined. I have several pictures of a trip to Sparky's with Jim Bell if anyone knows him, would have been about 1982 or 1983. One of the pictures was me on the .30 cal belt fed and another was my mom emptying mags from an M1. At the end of the day we got a picture of all of us together with a .50 cal an UZI and who knows what else. I was almost 18 before I realized not all guns were full auto, sometimes you just don't know how good you have it.

To this day I can still remember the T-shirt I bought; a picture of an M-16 that says why waltz when you can Rock N Roll. We went to go plinking about a month ago but the EPA closed the range for clean up in the pits.

QUOTE
A dealer from Illinois who was at the last show had several of his completely refinished Colt Thompsons priced at $22,000 – up from the April show when priced at $17,000. These are the Thompsons that were involved in a fire in 1988 at the Buffalo Rock Shooting Range & Ammo Supply in Illinois.


Who has these I would be interested in one as it was one of the first guns I ever shot in my life? The Thompson and M-16 are my favorites still almost 25 years later.
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#9 Sig

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 06:26 PM

Here you go.

Ronald Darnalll Darnall's Gun Works & Ranges 6125 E. 1175 N. Rd or R.R. #3; Box 274 Bloomington IL 61704 israron@juno.com 309-379-4331 309-379-4330
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#10 colt21a

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 08:19 PM

it was not a electric cord...lets just say... the title of a t.v.show with angela landsbury...and leave it at that...i don't want to open old wounds...as it did take what was left of the family a number of years to recover.

go chase down that colt...he might have sparkies 28 navy that he got for $3,000.00..........ya never know!!

the class three world is full of sordid tale's...sometimes we are better off not knowing some of them....the thing's nightmares are made of!!

i am glad i am at this time in my life... read:"double deal"by:mike corbett and sam giancana

another nightmare in my life...note"picture of chief holding up belted 308.{hint}

corbett is now deceased....

take care,ron
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#11 Ron A

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 12:26 AM

It appears the prices continue to climb on Thompson items - but, did it appear anyone was paying the prices.

Are you seeing any Colt drums? or anything outstanding?

See any real clean dated 20 rd mags? -


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#12 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 01:52 PM

Re the fire survivor guns Mr. Darnall is attempting to sell. I may be overly cautious but I would not even consider shooting much less selling any gun that had been in a fire without having it thoroughly examined and tested by a competent laboratory. I'd want a copy of their test report to go with the gun when I sold it.

To do otherwise is a negligence law suit waiting to happen.

MHO
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#13 Charlie

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 05:41 PM

I was at the show yesterday afternoon and evening till closing time.
I saw 2 Bridgeport drums together, one for $850 and the other for $900, I think.
Also Walter Neuman (from IMA, as I recall) had at least 2 Bridgeport L drums for
$1,000 each. He also had more finned barreled with cutts and upper receiver fronts,
'28 trigger frames with non-crossbolt stocks (price ??), and at least 3 Lyman adj. sights (still for $300, I believe).

I asked Walter if he had heard anything about black painted N.Y. L-drums like the one I have, being sold by Sarco in the mid-1980's. He said they came from South America that way. He may be right, but I know either Tracy Hill or someone else, at one of the annual
All Thompson Shows told me about the British practice of painting their equipment black
for service in North Africa. Does anyone have any definitive information about this.
For all I know, British-used drums could have found their way to South America after the War. By the way, I'm looking to sell either my Bridgeport OR my black painted N.Y. drum
for less than the going prices out there. Both of them are in fine shape, and work perfectly.

One more thing. Someone had a pallet of Wolf .45acp, with the new polymer coating, for
$135 per 1,000. But only one full case left when I saw it around 5pm. It was also gone
by closing time. Maybe it was just as well (?).
The only ammo I bought was four 50-round boxes of Federal Hydra-shock for about $15 per box, from Kiesler's Supply.

The show is always a lot of fun (I live 25min. away.) except for that occasional pesky
loud roar coming from somewhere near the firing line, drowning out all conversation!!!

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#14 JimFromFL

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 06:49 AM

All these posts and not one picture yet?!?!?!? cool.gif
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#15 Walter63a

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE (JimFromFL @ Oct 11 2004, 07:49 AM)
All these posts and not one picture yet?!?!?!? cool.gif

Maybe most of the guys would still rather pony-up $1,000 for a pre-1945 drum than a good digital camera. blink.gif laugh.gif smile.gif
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#16 full auto 45

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 10:24 PM

Ok, a couple of pictures!

20mm gun

Boom Time

Lots o' Toys

MG 42

Dual 50's

Water Cooled Fun

1919 in Action
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#17 Walter63a

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 10:35 PM

Thanks Mike! biggrin.gif I've got to get down there! blink.gif smile.gif Regards, Walter
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#18 Grey Crow

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 08:28 AM

Thanks for the photos Mike!

At out local shoot, I was amazed at the difference in volume (loudness) between the larger guns and the Thompson.

But then I was surprised at how quiet the suppressed arms were as well.
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#19 JimFromFL

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 08:55 PM

Mike,

Thanks for the pictures. Did any else notice in that last picture "1919 in action" all the brass on the ground. Someone was sure doing a lot of shooting.
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#20 full auto 45

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 09:57 PM

I tried to get all the guns in action. but with most digital cameras there is a delay in the shot. Hell some guns burned a clip before I could get a shot ready!
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