14 replies to this topic

[full auto 45]

Looking around on eVil Bay this morning and ran across this. I saw one several years ago but it wasn't this high of a price. I also passed on a 9mm conversion awhile back also.
Chi-Com conversion kit

[rkr]

I thought about buying this and building a post sample gun. I always wondered why the Russians did not take the Thompsons we gave them and convert to their beloved 7.62 X 25. I have a PPSH 41 and I do like this little cartridge. It is powerful and reliable. Right now it is much cheaper than 45acp but most is corrosive. Price is way to hi for me to jump. I did get a patent date mag the other day on ebay for $75 bucks. Not bad. It is not always evil.

[Norm]

Though I would like to see a 28 shoot this powerful ammo, it seems that it may be putting far more stress on the frame and internals than was ever intended.

Whose going to try it in their 28 (or better yet, their Colt 21?)

Norm

[fred]

...Especially when the magazine device must be attached to the receiver, according to the description. Not me!

It is a neat historical item, but other than the magazine adapter, the barrel has been sleeved and the magazine modified from other sources, so it is sort of a "made up" kit. Still worth the money based on what is included, though.

[Waffen Und Bier]

Yeah, I'll take a dremel tool and hacksaw to my '21 Thomspon and bodge it up to shoot this caliber

[Norm]

PhilOhio,

I never thought of it that way. It makes sense when you mention that the Broomhandle Masuer used this cartridge in a pistol.

I was just wondering who was going to be brave enough to try it on their Thompson. I guess when this kit (and other kits) were made, Thompsons were inexpensive ($400 or less in the early eighties.)

Those days are long gone and the $400 Tommys cost $8000 now.

Norm

[Bisley45]

Ahem, the Mauser and Tokarevs pistols do not use the same ammo, Tokarevs ammo is 10-15% hotter than the Mauser round, then when the Chek's built their little roller locked service pistol the CZ52 they uped it more. It's like firing a .38 Super in a .38ACP. Dimentionaly interchangable, not exactly the same, you can get away with it for a while but it definately is not a condonable practice.
On a lot of of the 7.62X25's especially the PPSh's the barrel was made from old Czarest era Mozin-Nagant rifles. They don't slug out at .308 but closer to .312, and I've seen them .317 and .318; and heard rumor of a guy who slugged a sloppy Mozin and wound up shooting 8mm (.323) bullets in it.

Be that as it may, it would have seemed sensable for the Rusians to convert the TSMG to 7.62X25 for lojistic reasons. I just don't see the argument about bullet drop, I doubt many soldiers had it in single and took shots out to the point where it would have mattered. Open bolts are not noted for prescise placement anyway although every one I've ever fired would keep them inside a paper plate.

BB

[Mk VII]

I remember examining a Chinese-modified M1928A1 # AO34680 in the Imperial War Museum's collection some years ago, modified for PPS43 magazines. They also had a Sten similarly modified.

[geodkyt]

The Soviets also did a 7.62x25mm Tokarev Sten. . . Should just be changing the barrel on a Sten (maybe the bolt & return spring). . . the mags should work (ISTR 9mm Sten mags are a tad longer than they need to be for the 9m Para).

[Chopper28]

I have about 3000 rounds of 7.62x 25 cheap if anyone needs any. $100 per thousand rounds. email chopper858@aol.com

[dallasboy_75287]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Sep 7 2003, 09:13 PM)

Norm, No way would this round cause any undue strain on the Thompson design.  Note that they had to delete  the ears of the Blish lock to get enough oomph to make the Thompson run.  The 7.63 Mauser delivers a light bullet at high velocity.  With .45 ACP, you have a heavy bullet at low velocity.  The impulses, which are all that the mechanism "senses", are quite similar.  The end result would be that you would have a gun shooting flatter and further out, but with great dispersion (the nature of an SMG) and not much effectiveness.  I'm sure the only reason they experimented with it at all was with a view toward ammo standardization. Remember that the first successful mass produced semiauto pistol (later full auto), the 1896 Mauser Broomhandle, was designed around this cartridge.  In strength, it is light years below the Thompson.  At the time the Chinese were toying with this Thompson modification, their officers carried hundreds of thousands of Broomhandles, chambered in 7.63 Mauser.  Interestingly, they also thought about going in the other direction, and Shansei Arsenal made up a few Broomhandles chambered for the Thompson's .45 ACP round.  What a neat beast that one is...a real handful and a real collector's item. But of course, nobody in his right mind is going to carve up a Thompson for this modification now.  Pointless.  Just an overpriced, but interesting, collectible, I guess.

PhilOhio

Glad you brought up the Shansei Broomhandle in .45. Gives me a reason to post some pics
Despite my better judgement, I picked this one up a month ago. It looks like it just came from the factory.



compared to a C96


pic for scale. most of you should have one of these around

[dallasboy_75287]

Check here for some background
http://www.iar-arms....ausereview1.htm

and here for the $$ these run.
http://www.iar-arms.com/mauser.htm

It is slotted for a stock. I found one but it's $400. I think I'll fit my C96 repro to it.

I have to run catch a plane or I'd offer more comment. It is a very unusual piece.

[SecondAmend]

Having been looking for a "broom" for a while, I ordered one of the .45's shown above. Thanks for letting the Board know of the availability of this product. I did not want a 7.63 and I have not seen a 9 mm that I cared for.

For pricing, IAR does give a discount to C & R FFL holders as well as other FFL dealers.

[Waffen Und Bier]

My Thomspon is stamped SFPD.

[Fullauto]

Interesting. If anyone is interested, I'm embarking on a conversion to an M1 carbine shortly - to 7.62 x 25. A 1 in 10' twist barrel will be used and I'll be firing Sierra 168 grain Matchkings !

Any questions ?