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1921 Thompson Help Needed


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#1 Mongo

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 02:59 PM

I know Stoner 63s but I''m new to Thompsons.
I'm brokering a 1921 Thompson made by Colt. I need some info:

Here's the particulars:

1921 Thompson NO 5104

“C” Drum

FRONT SIDE

MAGAZINE TYPE “C”
THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
100 CARTRIDGES CALO .45
WIND TO 15 CLICKS
NO 316

BACK SIDE
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORP
NEW YORK N.Y. U.S.A.
PATENED
JULY 27, 1920 DEC 7, 1920
NO 316

“L” Drum
FRONT SIDE

MAGAZINE TYPE “L”
THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
50 CARTRIDGES CAL 45
WIND TO 11 CLICKS
NO. 1861
FOR US NAVY MODEL 1928
WIND TO 9 CLICKS ONLY

BACK SIDE
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORP
NEW YORK N.Y. U.S.A.
PATENED
JULY 27, 1920 DEC 7, 1920
NO. 2848

20 Round Stick

PATENED AUG 24,1929
AUG 24, 1920 – JAN 11, 1920

3-30 Round Sticks

THE SEYMOUR PRODUCTS CO
SEYMOUR CONN.

The right side has some wear near the magazine, and the following markings;

AUTO-ORDNANCE CORPORATION
NEW YORK U.S.A
PATENED
MARCH 9, 1915 JULY 27, 1920
MAY 4, 1920 AUGUST 10, 1920
MAY 25, 1920 SEPTEMBER 27, 1920
MAY 25, 1920 OCTOBER 26, 1920


The top has the THOMPSON bullet logo and some wear near the slide.
Left Side

MODEL OF 1921
NO 5104

THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
CALIBRE 45 AUTOMATIC COLT CARTRIDGE
MANUFACTURED BY
COLT PATENT FIREARMS MFG .CO
HARTFORD CONN U.S.A.


Some wear on barrel just behind the compensator

Also included is the original F4 from the 1st owner (only 2 owners) and a hard case in mint condition.

My questions: How much is the gun and accessories worth? What year was it made? How can you tell if the case is an original or reproduction?

Edited by Mongo, 26 October 2004 - 03:17 PM.

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#2 snipershot1944

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 04:01 PM

It would help if you could hold it up to your monitior so we could see it more clearly (just kidding). There are some very knowledgable folks on the board who have been very helpful in the past, but they need to see what you have before expressing an opinion. I'd suggest that you take some very good digital photos and email them or post them to an accessable site.

BTW, I'm not one of those knowledgable people.

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#3 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 04:18 PM

1921 Thompson NO 5104-
Without knowing condition, could be $25-$35K..Depends on amount of original bluing, All Colt parts, condition of wood, etc....

“C” Drum
NO 316
$4k-$5K

“L” Drum
FRONT SIDE

MAGAZINE TYPE “L”
THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
50 CARTRIDGES CAL 45
WIND TO 11 CLICKS
NO. 1861
FOR US NAVY MODEL 1928
WIND TO 9 CLICKS ONLY

BACK SIDE
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORP
NEW YORK N.Y. U.S.A.
PATENED
JULY 27, 1920 DEC 7, 1920
NO. 2848

Mismatched Colt L drum $2.5-$3K

20 Round Stick

PATENED AUG 24,1929
AUG 24, 1920 – JAN 11, 1920

$85-$125 depending on condition

3-30 Round Sticks
Give away

Original case- $1500-$2000
If it has label of original 1930's manufacturer would be a good guide for originality, otherwise, the original type hardware has appeared on reproductions
.
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#4 Sig

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 04:50 PM

Mongo
Arthur beat me to the punch as I ran upstairs to check the serial # in Gordon's book.
Could not find any listing for that serial # which only means this gun has been out of circulation for a while as you described.
I would concur with Arthur's price range on the gun itself depending on condition.
My thoughts are SLIGHTLY different on a couple accessories.
A 3 digit serial $ C drum in excellent condition I think should command higher than the $5k max suggested.
I think the L drum is a tad high I am thinking $2k to $2.5.
Best way to get an assessment are pictures of the gun and accessories to look at condition.
good luck
michael
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#5 Mongo

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 06:24 PM

Opps forgot the pic link in my prior post. Here are the pics, sorry they are not clearer but I did not take them and have to wait for more.

Pic link
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#6 Sig

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 07:43 PM

Mongo
OK for sure the case is not anything of signficant value as it is late production.
The pics unfortunately are just too fuzzy to make much more out although my sense was the wood did seem original.
To assess a Colt TSMG one needs almost to handle it but pics can give you a good range.
I looked at one pic and the bolt did not seem original (nickel) which could be just the pic.
I still think the price ranges that Arthur and I suggested hold other than for the case at this point.
Do you still have your website?
michael
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#7 Mongo

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 04:36 PM

Yup just hit the tag at the bottom of my post. Its still being reconstructed.
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#8 philasteen

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 04:45 PM

Mongo - can you comment - some of the photos appear to show welding? in the vicinity of the magwell, but it's hard to make out.
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#9 sten guy

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 05:31 PM

Has it been re-finished???

If so ---- how would that effect the price quoted in a previous post??? 1/2 ???

STEN
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#10 Sig

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 05:47 PM

StenGuy
A refinished Colt TSMG is not going to be 1/2 of the above quotes that would be $12,500 to $17,500. You barely see a WH being offered for the lower range of the $12,500 and Bridgeport/Savages are nearing the upper price range. A Colt refinished or not will command higher prices. Not sure where everyone comes up with 1/2 price I have seen that a few times.

However I would agree if it is refinished, it would be significantly less, my guess would be about $20k. A 3 digit dewat recently auctioned off for $23k that will need a complete overhaul including reparing/replacing a barrel with a welded chamber and a "rod" drilled through the barrel whatever that means. Point is that dewat sold for $23k needing SERIOUS work and $ to make it function and it will NEVER be an original finish again.
michael
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#11 John Jr

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE
3-30 Round Sticks
Give away


Can I have em?

(I'll take any you have Arthur if they are free and you pay the shipping!)

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#12 Mongo

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 11:39 AM

It's not been refinished, no new weld metal, the only non-normal wear is the left side of barrel where it looks like its slightly pitted and the owner used steel wool to remove it and the finish.

Unfortunately I have not seen the gun except in the photos but have talked to the owner extensively.
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