

When Buying A Thompson...
#1
Posted 01 November 2004 - 12:06 AM

#2
Posted 01 November 2004 - 12:18 AM
and if its a really big deal. fly out and see it.mostly on my deal's i would give a serial number and send everything else on what is included in the deal.upon payment in full.then the rec.when paperwork clear's.this way the buyer has peace of mind when he's made payment...
for somebody that won't do that for you,step back quick!!!
since you really own it all upon payment in full..its just the paper you are going to wait on...i did deals like that for years...only had one mishap on a mp-40 some years ago...and the guy got ancy.and wanted refund...he got it and he shipped everything back....now years later he is probably kickin his own arse.since the gun went up over $4,000.00 to $5,000.00 buck's{ i laugh sold it to another dealer and got my money back the same week!!}
we all live and learn....good luck in whatever you find and buy out there.....its getting more hairy with all the greed.rip- artists.selling krap...and saying it's great.....
sad to say it will get worse before better....
take care,ron
#3
Posted 01 November 2004 - 06:41 AM
For the $ we are talking about today especially when condition dictates so much of the value one should if at all possible go see the TSMG. Both of my Colt TSMG's I went to see before committing, in both cases the dealer agreed to hold it for my inspection one asking for a small deposit. If you can not go see it have one of the many board members who knows you go look for you and be your eyes and ears. In my opinon the TSMG world is too visible for much opportunity for fraud thus in my case I was quite comfortable just inspecting the TSMG's and making the deal and leaving. I was most interested in confirming condition which was the reason I went to go see them.
If you do not know the dealer before that go to the subguns.com boards and check to see if the dealer is listed on the Recommended Dealer or Good Guys list BUT if not listed that does not necessarily mean they are bad those listed are just dealers who were nominated for being reliable. Failing to find them on the Good Guys list check the Board of Inquiry area (in the Messages section) and ask, usually someone will know them. Subguns board
You should always ask for a copy of the Form 3 or 4 whatever applies, of course a dealer intent on fraud could just show you an older copy of a gun they once had but I think that would be an extremely rare chance for the reason noted above (too visible).
I always have a bill of sale drawn. Finally if you want to have as much comfort as possible, when your funds clear all transferrable parts should be sent or if you happen to pay by cashier check and are seeing the TSMG yourself, leave with those parts, stock, lower, internals and any accessories.
michael
#4
Posted 01 November 2004 - 07:41 AM
First, draw up a simple one page sales contract laying out the specifics of the deal. Be sure to include language stating that the buyer's/seller's heirs are bound by the deal since you never know what might happen in the 3 months or more that it takes for the transfer to be approved.
Second, when you make your deal request that the seller ship all parts less the registered (barreled) receiver to you upon receipt of payment. I know of more than one case where the buyer received a Thompson with a bulged barrel or with other evidence of abuse simply because the unscrupulous seller felt he had someone else's gun once he had the buyer's money. Besides, having some parts in hand will likely make you rest a little easier, and give you something to fondle while you wait for the transfer to go through.
Hope this helps!
#5
Posted 01 November 2004 - 07:45 AM
Include the names and addresses of both parties.
Have the person sign (and possible notarize) the paper and send it back to you.
For the most part, you are at the mercy of the seller and must "hope" that person is honest.
#6
Posted 01 November 2004 - 09:17 AM

Edited by Mike Hammer, 01 November 2004 - 09:18 AM.
#7
Posted 01 November 2004 - 09:33 AM
Sometimes it's more or less a leap of faith.....but you can do quite a bit of sleuthing on your own. I bought an M16 upper from a guy after checking out his e-mail addy. It turned out he worked for the Dept. of Energy at a Lab complex out East. CHecked their website and there were his employee profiles. Everything I needed to know. Sent him the cash and got a really nice Bushy upper for a decent price!
Have the dealer put it in writing and avoid sending Money orders to P.O. boxes. If you do business with a VISA card or personal check you have some recourse if the deal doesn't pan out.
Good Luck!
john
#8
Posted 01 November 2004 - 11:09 AM
Bought another handgun from a guy that everyone sings praises about, gun described at 93%. Was looking for an HK USP .40 for a friend. Gun arrived, looking like it had been dragged behind a truck. Banged up, well worn, front sight insert missing, worn slide, worn rails on the frame, etc. etc. etc. A beat up police trade in. Guy is still in business, everyone still sings his praises.
There is always an element of "puffing" which is perfectly acceptable under the law. Intentionally misrepresenting conditions is different. For example, if I say the finish is flawless, runs like a top, shows little wear, 95% condition all that may be true. However, the barrel may be bulged. Not an uncommon condition in MG's, and considering the cost of a barrel, could arguably qualify the gun as a 95% condition firearm (probably not to me or you though). If I ask whether the gun has a bulged barrel, and the seller says no, but the barrel is actually bulged, entirely different story, that being actual misrepresentation.
Realize that rating a gun is a subjective exercise. It is often what is not disclosed that becomes the problem.
If I was getting ready to chunk that kind of money in a gun, unless you are really strong on knowing what to look for, get an RKI to go or to go with you. OR take pictures and put here for a critical opinion. Just like Corvettes, everything is either being reproduced or altered to fit the particular car.
Don't get scared, and have fun in the chase.
Ken
#9
Posted 02 November 2004 - 12:57 AM
#10
Posted 02 November 2004 - 01:30 AM
Pay a small deposit to hold, if you want to see the gun in person. When you send the big check, make sure it is sent certified mail. Keep copies of all correspondence and receipts.
I didn't have much luck on receiving all the parts, except receiver, prior to the transfer coming through. I guess most sellers don't feel comfortable breaking up the gun, before everything is finalized. They want everything up front, so it takes a lot of faith. Good luck
#11
Posted 02 November 2004 - 05:00 AM
Technically the gun is yours after the funds clear, other than a transfer document which only applies to the registered part.
#12
Posted 02 November 2004 - 11:42 AM
QUOTE (Sig @ Nov 2 2004, 05:00 AM) |
If you pay for the gun upfront and ANY seller does not want to break up the parts, RUN as fast as you can. Technically the gun is yours after the funds clear, other than a transfer document which only applies to the registered part. |
I disagree with that. While I am all in favor of sending parts to the buyer, sometimes I don't feel competent enough to disassemble a gun. One time, a guy who bought an M2 carbine asked me to send him everything but the receiver. Now, I've never disassembled an M2, but I don't imagine the non-registered parts amount to more than a stock and a few odds and ends. So what's the point?
#13
Posted 02 November 2004 - 07:05 PM
Plus, those parts being out there now muddy the water. What if the transfer doesn't go through or what if the buyer and seller have a disagreement? The parts are now subject to "loss", damage, rusting, etc. They may never get back with the gun again.
Really, on an M16 the parts that can get shipped to the buyer amount to less than 5% of the gun's value. They can stay with the transferable part.
Besides, I'm not gonna pull the barrel off of a Thompson, or MP44, or BAR. Too much risk of damage.
This is JMHO.
I've been lucky with most of my buy and sells. I'll definately do business differently if I ever go to buy or sell again.