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#1 cavediver

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 07:45 PM

I need some info as I have a chance to buy a collection. 1 M1A1 Savage, 2 Colt M-16's, 1 Bren and 1 M2 50. I have to make an offer for the collection and may get a White halftrack in the lot. Can anyone help me with what to offer being fair to me and the owner.
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#2 cavediver

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 07:48 PM

I also need to know how to find out if they are in the registry, it is an estate and we have not located the paperwork yet. I know if not registered I do not want to have anything tpo do with them and will advise the owner to dispose of them properly but we are sure they were registered.
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#3 cavediver

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:12 AM

Ive got the $$$ just need to know what to offer. The MIAI I know the range, the 16's I think from 12-16 The Bren and the M2 I have no idea.
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#4 Sig

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:18 AM

The M2 can go anywhere from $20k to $30k depending if it is a sideplate gun or an original and how many parts and accessories go with it.
The Bren looks like about $20k based on this ad from Bowers board.
Bren Mk-1, 4 extra barrels, tripod w/T&E, mag chest w/12 mags, complete spare parts set, exc $19,500 (due in soon).
M16A1's Colts should be $12k-$13k depending on condition assuming they are factory original. Could be higher depending on some rarer configurations but not likely.

To buy an entire collection if you are not getting them for at least 10% below retail market I would not do it. It should be more like 15% to 20% below retail would be my target for the seller to have the benefit of one clean transaction.

my $0.02, your mileage may vary.

michael

added found a M2 ad
One transferable M2HB
Ramo side plate gun on FN parts kit
In excellent condition
Fresh rebuild with 0 rounds fired since build
With M2 tripod, T&E, Cradle and linker
$21,000

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#5 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 12:29 PM

"To buy an entire collection if you are not getting them for at least 10% below retail market I would not do it. It should be more like 15% to 20% below retail would be my target for the seller to have the benefit of one clean transaction."

Wow you are a lot more kind than I am... I start at 50% wholesale and work from there when I buy collections.... Last one I bought had M1 Grarand's to Stevens single shots... You usually end up with stuff you have to just turn around and 10% ain't even close to enuff... Unless you want to be some benefactor to the estate then I would never pay anywhere near 80%.... YMMV

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#6 Sig

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 03:17 PM

Z3BigDaddy
I am not in this for the money that is for sure. It was just my thought as where I would go with it as a non-dealer and looking at it from a viewpoint as keepers.
I have never bought a collection of guns and really don't have any intentions to unless something were offered out of the blue and I had complete interest in the items.
I understand and clearly expected some comments along the lines such as yours.
michael
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#7 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 08:52 PM

I'm not a dealer either I just like toys.... and the more toys I have the more I can wheel and deal to get the toys "I" want. But as for this specific sale 1) It is an estate so it "has" to be liquidated. 2) It is a class of weapon that most people are not comfortable with dealing with. 3) The person most likely doing the legwork is going to be cavediver. So I believe he is well within his "ethical" right to go 50/50 on the deal. I just did an estate thing with a deposit box full of coins... the deal was I split 50/50 of the profit above face value to sell the coins.... I did all the work they get 50% of the profit both parties were more than happy.
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#8 craig101

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:07 PM

that Bren in the subguns ad for like 19.5K is for a pre-sample. for a true C&R transferable Bren, i think you are looking at 35k+. you don't see C&R transferable Brens on the market too often.

jmho, i don't like brens so i don't follow them too closely.
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#9 cavediver

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:26 PM

I appreciate the information. I was offered the guns for free and they wanted me to assist with the disposal of the other items but I want to be fair and buy the collection to keep.
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#10 cavediver

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 04:22 PM

I will get to see the lot this weekend. I do need to know how to find out if they are in the registry if the paperwork cannot be found. There is alot more to the collection that I cannot reveal untill I make a deal but I would be able to get almost everything I have wanted in a military collection if it works out. Shame there are no 21 or 28 Colts LOL the M1A1 is a nice find.
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#11 craig101

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:26 PM

whoever is handling the estate OR the spouse of the deceased person needs to call the NFA branch. children of the deceased might be able to call also. they can tell you who can ask if they are in the system.

actually, call the NFA branch and tell them the situation and ask them who can inquire about the status of these guns.

now my fee is 1 M16 for helping you. biggrin.gif

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#12 full auto 45

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:06 PM

I am working on 2 Colts myself right now that belonged to a guy who died and his son found them in the house. He found no paper work with them so he found my website and asked if I could help. He gave me the numbers and I contacted a local cop friend who intern contacted a ATF buddy who is checking out to see if they are registered. If they are, I get first hit at them. If not, I will let a couple people know first and then the board here. I won't tell the numbers or where the guns are until then, so don't ask. I told the guy I would not give any person info. I will only say they are in a NFA friendly state.
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#13 cavediver

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 12:07 AM

Well that deal went south quickly. I have advised the party to contact ATF as quickly as possible to abandon the weapons. I may still get the Tank and Halftrack.
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#14 cavediver

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 12:09 AM

Its a bummer when 100K in weapons turn into $5.00 worth of unregistered junk.
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#15 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 12:25 AM

Caver,

Sorry for your misfortune. That sucks and is always an instant squishie (faster than seeing Janet Reno with Hitlery Klinton together nekid -ooh, I just tasted my own vomit). The guns could always become parts kits instead of abandoning to ATF (or they could go to a legit museum).

What kind of tank?
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#16 craig101

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 07:34 AM

keep looking for the paperwork. just because the ATF says they don't have it in their Registry, doesn't mean they are not registered.

i can see the Thompson and Bren being not registered as they were around in the pre-68 days with DEWATs and such. but unpapered M16s is a bit more odd, unless they are conversions....

i have heard of unpapered Armalite AR15 model 01s, but those are old ones. i guess they could have been duffle bag guns from Nam, but you don't hear of factory M16's not papered too often.

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#17 cavediver

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 11:04 AM

The tank is a Sherman, they also have an APC.
It is worse than no papers.
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#18 Bob

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 11:44 AM

If the guns had no paper...do the vehicles have form 9's?

Good deal, nice to haves documents, one of mine came with the unit history of three years combat on micro film.
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#19 cavediver

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 12:20 PM

They do have papers on the vehicles.
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