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Price Check Wwii Drums- Affected By New Drums?


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#1 pat k

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 12:39 AM

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#2 Sig

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 07:58 AM

My comparison or question would be did the market value of Bridgeport, Savage, and Colt Thompsons change when West Hurley reintroduced their full auto models? I don't know for sure but suspect not much if any because the originals still have a history and are in limited supply.

Lately I have felt the Bridgeport, Savage, and Colt Thompson guns seem to have been spreading or outgaining in price vs West Hurley's, so to me at least for the TSMG itself there is a value in an original.

Personally I think the new drums will be in big demand from hundreds of semi-auto TSMG owners who never stepped up before to an original drum, so bottom line not much change in prices for the original drums. The original drums will always be something special and command a premium for that.

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#3 gijive

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 08:33 AM

pat k,

Personally, I don't think there are any "fair" prices on original Thompson parts and accessories any longer. smile.gif

Seriously though, the WWII drums I have seen lately usually sell in the neighborhood of $600.00 to $1,000.00. I think a fair price, consideriing what some people list them for, would be $600.00 to $700.00. There are a couple of WWII Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport marked drums listed on boards for around $1,500.00, but they aren't selling for that price.

A Worcester Colt era drum usually sells for a few hundred more than the WWII variety drums. Sometimes you can find them more in line with the WWII drums offered by sellers that really don't know the differences between the various drums produced at different times throughout the Thompson production years.

By the way, United Specialties made the WWII drums you refer to as Bridgeports. There are only subtle marking differences on the drums contracted by Auto-Ordnance and manufactured by United Specialties at the beginning of WWII.

Doug Richardsons drum book is a straight-forward ,easily understood chronology of the various drums produced prior to and during WWII. It is well worth obtaining if you are serious about learning about the Thompson drums.

Internet scuttlebutt is interesting at times, but there is a lot of misinformation about Thompsons floating about.

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#4 philasteen

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 11:26 AM

I paid $600 for a good condition "U" drum from a fellow board member. I considered that slightly above the prevailing rate, but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices.
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#5 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE (philasteen @ Dec 31 2004, 11:26 AM)
I paid $600 for a good condition "U" drum from a fellow board member.  I considered that slightly above the prevailing rate, but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices.

Above the prevailing rate? "but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices." How can you have those sentences in the same paragraph? So you really paid below the "public" prevailing rate, and above "your" prevailing rate..... Now I have sold below "retail", or even given away items to fellow board members, but that certainly does not create a prevailing rate.... jmho
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#6 philasteen

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Dec 31 2004, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE (philasteen @ Dec 31 2004, 11:26 AM)
I paid $600 for a good condition "U" drum from a fellow board member.  I considered that slightly above the prevailing rate, but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices.

Above the prevailing rate? "but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices." How can you have those sentences in the same paragraph? So you really paid below the "public" prevailing rate, and above "your" prevailing rate..... Now I have sold below "retail", or even given away items to fellow board members, but that certainly does not create a prevailing rate.... jmho

To be clear, I have not been seeing many non-Colt L drums out there for sale right now - a quick check on Sturm revealed none, with many new production drums listed.

But when they appear for sale the non-Colt L's seem to be in the 5-600 range. Other than the odd seller still asking $1,500 for one.
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#7 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 02:33 PM

And to also just be clear you're talking WWII vintage drums? Because if anyone wants to sell them for 5-6 hundred I'm a lock buyer at that price... Last Bridgeport I bought was 8 bills, and I don't regret one dime of it.... It is the best running drum I have... Of course my NY drum is with Merle as I keyboard this so that is open to revision....

"I paid $600 for a good condition "U" drum from a fellow board member. I considered that slightly above the prevailing rate, but I have not seen more than a few non-Colt Ls being sold at those prices. "

"But when they appear for sale the non-Colt L's seem to be in the 5-600 range."


I'm not trying to flame but your statements are contradictory(sp?). I'll just state that I don't think you can buy a good WWII L drum from a knowledgable seller for 5-600... Now maybe from a board member yes, but I have yet to see your prices at shows or online...... That being said I did buy my NY drum for five bills at a show, but that was a case of a dumb buyer, me, and a dumber seller.....
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#8 Murray

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 04:12 PM

A major factor in WW2 drums is the condition.
If the drum is clean with no rust, pitting and "dings" they natually fetch a higher price.
An interesting point is that I just had a look in my Auto Ord cataloge from 1983 (West Hurley) and they were offering WW2 drums then for $250 so the price change in 22 years is not that great.
Most United specialties (Bridgeport) drums seem to be in the $600 to $800 price range but I saw the same drums offered at the SAR show for $1050.00 (They did not sell) Also, dealers were offering them as "New York" drums , which in my opinion is a bit misleading.
I picked up a really nice United drum in unfired condidtion for $750 and I was happy.
Last year I bought a Seymore still in the box for more but you dont see WW2 drums still in the box much any more.
I also bought at the SAR show a matching numbered (315) Colt "C" drum in unused condition for $750.00 ohmy.gif and , no one I was at the show with has spoken to me since, but that is another subject.
Happy new year to you all.
Regards
Murray. smile.gif
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#9 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 04:26 PM

We still love you, Murray.

It's your luck that we hate.

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#10 philasteen

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 07:43 PM

Well, perhaps I got a better deal than I thought, but the drum was listed on this site for $700 for two days before the price was dropped to $600 and I bought it.

So if the drums are $800 as you say, and there is smart money here, it was sure snoozing when I bought that drum.

Here is the link, for those who wish to verify the above facts: Link
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#11 john

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 09:06 PM

Pat, you picked up that Bridgeport drum at the SAR show at a very good price...very nice(with the pouch!). You probably won't shoot it much just as I won't shoot the Worcester drum much that I picked up (with the pouch!)from the same table....I also have a nice Seymour drum that I won't use much, either. I still use my Bridgeport drum but have a Kahr on the way and also picked up a West Hurley drum that will get more use than the originals...
Nice drums are hard to find at those prices....

Gotta keep the originals nice!! Now I'm looking for a nice Crosby!!

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#12 Grey Crow

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 10:22 PM

That was a "sweet" deal Murray.

A lot of it has to do with being at the right place at the right time, AND having the cash on hand.

John, just for giggles what did you have to give for your Worcester? If you don't mind.

I gave $1,179 for a near mint Worcester in 2003, ran one box through it and put it away for safe keeping.

At this time I am one very fortunate person, as the wife placed a pot of chicken on the stove tonight and went away. Luckily all I have is a lot smoke damage.

Man does it smell!
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#13 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 04:01 AM

QUOTE (philasteen @ Dec 31 2004, 07:43 PM)
Well, perhaps I got a better deal than I thought, but the drum was listed on this site for $700 for two days before the price was dropped to $600 and I bought it.

So if the drums are $800 as you say, and there is smart money here, it was sure snoozing when I bought that drum.

Here is the link, for those who wish to verify the above facts: Link

Dang that was when I took a sabatical.... §:-( Anymore out there?
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#14 john

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 01:07 PM

Grey Crow,
The Worcester drum that I picked up was $1000 even (and David Buehn took a personal check, leaving me more cash to spend elsewhere!!) AND (Bonus time!!) the drum came with an excellent condition US Drum pouch...near mint!
I opened the drum and it appears to never have been used. Same with the pouch.

My wife was with me and said "You're not gonna spend a Grand on that, are you?" blink.gif

My reply: "You bet! Give me the checkbook"!! laugh.gif

Two nice deals on one table....Pat got one, I got the other (and met Pat in the process!).

Picked up a West Hurley drum later that day for $225...that (along with the new Kahr drum) will be my primary "shooter" drums.

Pat, how old is your Son? The Tommy is my Son's favorite also. He's been shooting it since he was 9....going on 15 now and he's pretty good!

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#15 Grey Crow

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 04:34 PM

John,

Awesome deal!

I forgot the drum I purchased came with a mint pouch as well.. I don't store it in the pouch however thinking that it might draw moisture causing rust. At this time its in a gallon zip baggie with lots of oil on the exterior and a thin coat on the interior.

smile.gif
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#16 Charlie

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 05:27 PM

I don't regret selling my Bridgeport for $600.
Sure, I would have been glad to have sold it for more.
But I didn't get any offers. And I wasn't willing to wait,
or to bother going to somewhere else, to sell it.
And I still feel that I got a fair price for it.

On a related note, I am amazed at how high the prices of Thompsons
are up to, now. Last Spring I was seriously thinking of selling my
Savage '28 STHOMPSON (mis-marked on the side) for $12,000.
If I could have bought a Colt '21 or '28N for a couple grand more,
I think I would have done it. But now it looks like you can't even find
a Colt gun in ANY decent condition for under $20,000 (at least in the U.S.).
And I don't know what my gun would sell for, now. But at these prices,
I think I'd be too afraid to sell mine without having my hands on the Colt
gun that I'd want in place of it. The price difference might very well be
only $2,000 for all I know. But if it wasn't, I don't think I'd be willing to
try to come up with more than that, just to own a Colt.
I consider myself blessed to have been able to buy my first Thompson,
a West Hurley, for $800 in 1984. And I thank God that I was able to sell it
to a friend for $2,000 in 1993 so I could buy my STHOMPSON for $2800.


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#17 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 07:20 PM

Charlie,

Why should you regret anything? You know it went to a good home, and the buyer isn't going to turn it around for a profit. That is the nature of message board communities. Heck the car board I'm on we just give away a lot our extra stuff cuZ we're all friends.... Please don't take any of my post as being critical to anyone... You wanted a quick sale and got it... As I state in all my post selling or buying from message board members is different than trying to buy on the "open" market.

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#18 philasteen

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 07:58 PM

The drum is in a good home and I thank Charlie for it.

I am still looking for a matching numbered "L" though, if anyone has one.
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#19 Charlie

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 08:29 PM

I had fun shooting with it, too. Glad to know it'll be used to enjoy our hobby.
BTW I used the money to buy a S&W Model 629 .44 mag. I plan to have
the barrel shortened to 5" and maybe hybrid ported, with a view to shooting
bowling pins, if I can ever find where they have matches close enough to
Ft. Knox/Louisville.

You know, if the new Kahr drums can be made to work perfectly, I just might
be persuaded to sell my N.Y. black-painted (by the British, or not) L drum,
if I can get a good enough price for it from one of you guys. But FIRST...
let's see how these new Kahr drums hold up.
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#20 AZDoug

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 09:51 PM

QUOTE (Murray @ Dec 31 2004, 02:12 PM)

An interesting point is that I just had a look in my Auto Ord cataloge from 1983 (West Hurley) and they were offering WW2 drums then for $250 so the price change in 22 years is not that great.

That is a big change from my 1974 WH catalogue where the L drums were $7 a piece ( Either WWII, or Original, no distincion was made). Oh, I wish I would have had $700 back then.

Doug
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