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Seeking Hyde Submachine Gun Receiver Information


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#1 dalbert

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 01:43 PM

I'm looking for information anyone on this board might have regarding receiver markings on the 1st Hyde Submachine Gun. (Hyde 109, not the Hyde M2) Does anyone on the board own one? I know that the following markings exist:

Above the selector switch, "R.F." and "S.F."

Above the safety switch, "S" and "F"

I am particularly interested if the letters "ABC" or "TOC" appear anywhere on the weapon. I am also interested in knowing what manufacturing marks are present on the barrel.

Here is a picture of the weapon, and if you're not already familiar with it, you will notice the similarity to a 1921 Thompson, but the Hyde has a round receiver.

user posted image

Also, can anyone identify the type of rear sight that is in the picture? This is a picture of the rear sight on a Hyde.

user posted image

Thanks in advance!

David Albert
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#2 TD.

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 02:00 PM

Could the Hyde 109 also be known as the Hyde Model 33 or Hyde Model 35? See The World's Submachine Guns, Volume 1, by Thomas B. Nelson, Pages 70-72.
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#3 Hawkeye_Joe

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 02:04 PM

That sight looks an awful lot like the sight on my Sharp's Carbine.. laugh.gif
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#4 LIONHART

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 02:21 PM

Looks like a fun gun to have!
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#5 dalbert

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 02:24 PM

It's the Hyde Model 35. The Hyde Model 33 was a prototype, I believe. I refer to it as the Model 109 because Frank Iannamico referred to the weapon by that designation in his recent U.S. Submachine Guns book. The "109" looks like it was a reference to the serial number of the particular weapon that was submitted for testing at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. I will refer to it as the "Model 35" from now on. The weapon was finished around April 1935, and the patent was issued on August 4, 1936.
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#6 TD.

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 04:41 PM

In Small Arms of the World (10th edition) by Joseph E. Smith, it is listed in the Index and refered to in the text as the Hyde Model 109. However, a picture of a Hyde Model 35 is shown - See pages 669, 670. Any idea what one of these sells for? Or how many are in existence?
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#7 dalbert

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 05:07 PM

TD,

The number of Hyde SMG's in existence is also a topic of great interest to me. Based on information I have in my possession, I believe 60 were manufactured. I'm not sure how many have survived, and are currently in the NFA registry. Parts would be a problem for anyone who owns one. If anyone needed a replacement, it would have to be fabricated.

David Albert
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#8 dalbert

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 05:46 PM

Based on a clue I found in documents in my possession, I just determined that the rear sight is from a Mauser Broomhandle Pistol. It is the same sight that is pictured as type "U" on page 38 of "The Mauser Self-Loading Pistol," by Belford and Dunlap. Just solved that mystery!

David Albert
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#9 dalbert

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 02:48 PM

PhilOhio,

Thanks for the lead on the Hyde 35 barrels from Numrich. I had not noticed before that Numrich had them for sale. I went ahead and ordered one, so that should help me in putting together some of the information I need. I don't think they have any other Hyde parts, and from the information I have, it is unlikely they would have any spare parts besides maybe sights or sling swivels, unless some of the guns were junked.

Thanks!

David Albert
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