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Lube Experiment


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#1 Gunner

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:36 PM

A few weeks ago I tired of having to wipe oil off the right lens of my glasses when firing my Westies. After cleaning and re-lubing, the first mag or so would sling a lot of oil into my face. I've always used Breakfree LP (CLP w/o the "C" -- slightly more viscous) on both my M1 and my 28, but recently I decided to experiment and try to find something that was thicker and wouldn't spray me as much. I've tried Rigg gun grease a couple of times, and my M1 likes it just fine. However, with my 29, I've had the same malfunction both times I tried it. The first time I take her out after a cleaning and lube with Rigg, I have a failure. She fires 2-3 rounds, and then stops. There is an un-fired round in the chamber, with a very slight indentation in the primer. I clear the round, and the gun runs flawlesssly thereafter. As I said, this has happened twice, and the unfired round always fires after I try it again. I guess I'm back to LP for the 28.
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#2 Hawkeye_Joe

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:02 PM

Do you have a breech oiler in your Westie ?
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#3 Gunner

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:52 PM

Yep -- in the 28. Of course there's no provision for an oiler in the M1.
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#4 TSMGguy

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 06:42 PM

I like original GI gun grease in the two pound can, which is probably a lifetime supply! A light coat on everything seems to do the trick, and none gets on my shooting glasses. I shoot left handed. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about the gun slinging lube. They'll do this when over lubricated.
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#5 JimFromFL

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 10:13 PM

QUOTE (TSMGguy @ Feb 13 2005, 06:42 PM)
I like original GI gun grease in the two pound can, which is probably a lifetime supply! A light coat on everything seems to do the trick, and none gets on my shooting glasses. I shoot left handed.

Good idea....

I may just try the grease. I too am getting tired of getting grease in my face.
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#6 john

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 10:01 PM

I use CLP in my AO Bridgeport. With the original red fiber washer I'd get a facefull of CLP every time I pulled the trigger on a clean gun. Probably using too much lube, but they ain't making 'em anymore!! ohmy.gif

Backed off on the lube a bit and still had the spray in the face (and teeth!)

Finally the washer self-destructed as these old washers will do. I had some High-Durometer urethane sheets and made a buffer washer out of this stuff, same thickness as the original. WOW!! Seals MUCH BETTER! Very little in the face now and I'm sure the softer urethane protects the actuator and receiver better! wink.gif

Seems to have been more of a "seal" problem than a lube problem!

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#7 john

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 12:04 PM

Probably do a fine job....feel the same as the ones I made for my gun and they should work fine. They seem to seal just like a gasket. cool.gif

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#8 junglewalk

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:58 PM

huh.gif Yes, Mel's buffer seems to do the trick, even for me, a lube freak, on rifles, pistols, machine guns, main gun, flair pistols, cap guns, etc.......jw
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#9 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 04:00 PM

My experience with the urethane buffer has been that it generates more, not less oil spray. To be fair, let me not say the manufacturer. In any case, I usually store my (Savage) 28 butt-down in a gun safe. When I take it out, there is oil dripping out of the buffer pilot hole in the rear of the receiver and the tiny relief hole in the top of the rear of the receiver.

When I shoot, the urethane buffer (being more slightly squishy than the fiber buffer I formerly used) appears to act as a little pump that generates a fine mist around the pilot hole using all the oil that has seaped into the area between the buffer and the receiver and around the pilot.

No mist at all with the M1A1 and stock buffer.

Your experience may be different, a different brand of urethane buffer may behave differently, a different TSMG may behave differently, your milage may vary between oil changes, depending on individual owner uses, oil changes may need to be made more frequently, contact an authorized factory dealer or representative for assistance, etc.

MP
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#10 PK.

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 08:11 AM

Some thoughts on buffers:

They are buffers, not oil seals- if you don’t want a face full, don’t oil so heavily.

The buffer sits on the breech oilier frame and not the back of the receiver; oil can get in between the receiver and frame and then out the hole.

The buffer must compress to be effective. Think of stepping on a doughnut- As it gets thinner from the pressure it also gets larger on the OD and smaller on the ID; if it fits tightly on the shank of the pilot it can only provide a small percentage of it’s available buffering potential. This is true also if the corners of the hole are sharp and create “hot spots” when compressed into the radii of the pilot. This can also lead to cracks in the buffer.

Only about 80% of the buffer contacts the oilier frame, the rest is hanging off the bottom. If the buffer is round and a free fit on the pilot shank, it can (and does) rotate as the gun operates, thereby distributing the wear evenly throughout the life of the buffer. If it can not rotate, that 20% that hangs over the edge never gets used and the buffer can get a bit of a wedge shape going due to uneven compression and cause the pilot to cant, putting stress on the recoil spring, pilot and hole in the actuator.

Sometimes, there is more to a simple part than meets the eye.

These thoughts are general in nature, I am not addressing anyone’s particular product.

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#11 john

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 12:26 PM

PK brings up some good points.
When I made my urethane buffers (actually had access to fairly stiff urethane (unknown, but high durometer) in thin sheets so I stacked three up to make the same thickness as the original buffer. I did trim the sharp edges off the inside holes as the original fiber washer was beveled. The center holes are cut a bit snug, and I'm not sure if they rotate, but they seem to do the trick and after a couple thousand rounds show no signs of uneven compression.
As for reducing spray out the pilot hole, there is noticeably less than before, with no change in my oiling habits. PK is right that the oil can also seep out between the oiler frame and the receiver, and that reminded me that when I installed these I checked the oiler and the angle on one corner was less than 90 degrees, while the other corner was greater than 90 degrees. As an afterthought, this could be why my red fiber washer broke apart in the first place....uneven pressure from the oiler constantly "battering" one edge.
I carefully straightened these angles at the same time I put the urethane buffers in the gun, and the gun does spray quite a bit less. wink.gif
I also replaced (at the same time) the spring pilot as the old one was wearing heavily on one side. The new one seems to be wearing much more evenly.

I'm no engineer, but this makes sense. Who could have thought that a couple slightly uneven bends in an oiler would throw uneven wear into several other parts? huh.gif

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#12 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 09:00 PM

Is oil spray from the buffer pilot hole a problem with the semi-auto 27A1 Thompsons also?

TIA
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#13 TSMGguy

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 10:29 PM

Oil spray is only a problem when the gun is over lubricated. Grease is not nearly so viscous, and clings better to the moving parts. It also provides superior lubrication to parts moving against each other under operating pressures. Oil is a poor lubricant under these conditons. I use very little oil on the pivot points of the various parts in the frame and as a short term preservative on the exterior and in the bore. Grease is used (lightly) everywhere else. That's why it was issued.
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#14 Gunner

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 11:06 PM

And what kind of grease do you prefer, TSMG Guy?
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#15 Kevin

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 11:11 PM

I've been using Break Free Greased Lighting. Works great.
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#16 Gunner

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 10:28 AM

TSM Guy,

That's what I had been using, but I would have classified it as an oil, not a grease, since it's liquid. If you're getting good results, though, it would appear that I'd been too liberal with it. Thanks.
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#17 Grey Crow

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 01:07 PM

With the 27 semi, I get a drop or two of oil on the glasses.

Other then wiping the inside with a oil rag, I place a drop of oil on each spring, the firing pin, and on the pivot points in the frame.
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#18 TSMGguy

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 05:17 PM

Gunner: Good old GI rifle grease from WWII (and later) in the big can. It's the same stuff you've seen in the little yellow GI butt trap tubs. A little goes a long way, so I apply it sparingly with a finger tip, or a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip for harder to reach places. No spattering, guaranteed, and it won't migrate downward during storage!
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