31 replies to this topic

[NotDeaf]

WOW,
6k for a Colt parts kit on Sturm ...

Here's what it said ....

1928 Navy complete except center section.Saw cut not torch cut. All Colt and all correct. Very nice gun. Nice wood and barrel, correct 28N actuator,bolt ect.Price is 6K.

[philasteen]

Probably worth the money, if it's real.

[jim]

Boy, things have sure changed in the last year or so. When I posted a Colt parts kit for $6,000 last year most everyone on this board claimed I'd never get that kind of money for Colt parts!

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Not me!

[John Jr]

QUOTE

6k for a Colt parts kit on Sturm ...

Come on, you can buy an UZI for that. No parts kit is worth that. All you end up with is a bunch of parts.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

If the parts are not worth anything individually, then how can the complete weapon be worth what it is? Of course if the parts were mass produced during WWII, I could see your point. Unlike many other items where the parted out parts fetch more than the complete item, such as a vehicle, the Colt TSMG is indeed valuable as a whole entity and as well as its ingredients.

[p51]

Hey, when you consider that M-28 torch cut kits are going for a grand at Sarco, can you really be too surpised at this?

[John Jr]

What do you end up with? Colt put their name on the cut up part, and you don't get that part. You get a barrel made by Remington, a compensator made by Cutts, wood made by Remington and a bunch of unmarked parts made by colt (or so we hope). Keep in mind that the unmarked parts from Colt were made on much the exact same machinery that the WW2 parts were made on; (regardless of how many were made for WW2 or colt.)


What are you going to do with the parts? Wow! You own a collectable parts kit!

[philasteen]

Hey John Jr. since you are always so negative on this topic --

is the WWII production 1928 barrel going to match the finish of a colt receiver when put on? No, but a cut up Colt parts kit Remington made barrel will come reasonably close

And so on

[colt21a]

its a piece of paper...the all mighty.registration............anything metal and wood is not worth that.........

you have one papered and worth????you have a closet queen...{with nothing} no paper's..and its worth this????

and you have another chopped up!!need's no paper's...and it's worth this??

heck i'm getting to sound like the gestapo..let me see zee paper's..wink!!


you are all right.
take care,ron

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE

It is only the piece of paper and an entry on the NFA registry that comprises most of the value.

PhilOhio

No collectible lives in a vacuum. These parts are not some two for nickel NFA controlled sear that currently sells for $7K. So where is the NFA relevance? Do NFA laws impact the available number of firearms available to the public? Sure. Do these regulations also impact the values? Of course, but not to the degree that some would lead you to believe. As far as the Colt TSMG goes, the 1934 Law and the 1968 Law did not boost the value of the weapon significantly since they could still be purchased for under $1000 up until the mid 1970's. The 1986 Law didn't impact the value for WH TSMG's, nor did the Colt TSMG raise appreciably at the time either. The 1992 Law didn't seem to have an inordinate impact on the prices either. It wasn't until around 2001 when there was a substantial increase in prices for these examples and it wasn't attributed to the 1992 Law.

It is no more reasonable to blame the NFA Laws as the culprit for "artificially inflated" prices than it is to use the Internet and mass media as the Boogie Man. It is not possible to separate out the extraneous factors that do exist in this life that may or may not effect the value and commerce of a particular antique/collectible/hobby. The fact is these immutable factors are as part of the allure and visceral appeal of the full auto weapons as the weapons themselves.

To say that the stroke of a pen could render these firearms worthless, as in they could no longer be bought/sold by private parties or dealers, is not only conjecture of the most jejune sort, but collectors of exotic Italian and 1960's Muscle Cars could also be impacted by a U.S.D.O.T. law that might prohibit any vehicles that have more than 250 HP, or get less than 15 MPG on the highway.

As far as the notion that only a person who owns a Colt TSMG would be willing to pay $6K for a parts kit would seem a lucid observation. But many on this board alone purchase Colt TSMG parts and accessories and WWII TSMG items and yet do not even posses the weapon.

[1921A]

Buyer beware on "saw cut" NFA parts kits of any kind. Correct me if I'm wrong but ATF rules for demilling NFA items specify torch cutting into three peices. ATF confiscated most of the UZI "saw cut" kits a few years back. I'd hate to invest that much in a Colt kit and risk losing it to the "gun police."

Greg Fox

[Dirk67]

Someone correct me if I am wrong,( and rest assuredly someone will), but I believe that only imported parts kits are subject to torch cut restrictions. If the reciever was cut into pieces in the usa, from a usa gun( in states already legally), then it may be saw cut with the centersection removed. I don't remember the exact amount but I think the center section must be at least 3".

FWIW

DAW

[1921A]

DAW

You might be correct. I cut several Reising model 50s a few years back. ATF had the opportunity to look at them because the Sheriffs's office wanted to be sure they were doing it right. The agent who examined them insisted that they must be torch cut to be legal. We had to have them cut again, by torch, to satisfy him. This might be a good question to raise again with ATF Tech Services although typically you get a different answer each time you talk to a different person.

1921A

[pca16]

I have the parts kit for sale. I paid 6K for it about a year ago. I thought Colt parts in very good condition were worth it then and still think thats the case. If you figure the rear sight at 500.00, the complete lower at 2500 with correct nickel parts, the barrel and comp 1500,a correct 28 navy actuator 1000,complete wood set no dings 2000, ejector,complete bolt, spring,buffer,breach oiler,1500, this totals 9000.00. Now I have seen all of the above sell (obviously to people who needed them) for the amounts listed. If you have a Colt gun that you shoot, and ring the barrel whats an origional replacement worth? If you buy a Colt Navy and it does not have an origional actuator, it's not complete. when the guns are selling for 25-35K then the peace of mind if you shoot it is certainly worth 6. If I don't sell it I will keep it, then in 5 or 6 years, if I have to wait that long, I will sell the parts for twice that and someone will think back and say" boy, I remember when.................I should have jumped on that." Just think back over the past year and remember how many of these parts you have seen for sale, certainly more WTB than WTS. I collect Model A Ford cars also and my pheaton sold for 425.00 in 1928. Sold to me in 1990 for 5000.00 and I have been offered 15,000.00 for it. Colt Thompsons are somewhat the same origionaly sold for 200, in 1986 3000.00 in 2005 30,000.00. The past is the past. Only a certain number of model A's left,doesn't matter if you speak Ford or Thompson. And on the cut question, imports must be torch cut, domestic arms can be saw cut, ATF provides overlay of where the gun must be cut.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Checkmate!

[Hawkeye_Joe]

"No more calls please.. We have a winner......!"

[Mike Hammer]

Arthur, while you are correct in saying that the '86 legislation did not immediately affect prices greatly, it was only a "delayed reaction" to the class 3 market. The '86 ban was indeed was the the act that eventually caused prices to be what they are today...and there is no denying that fact. If there were no law passed in '86, prices would still certianly be higher than they were then, but nothing, nothing like the prices we are getting used to seeing today. As far as the eventual ban of all class 3 weapons, I can only hope that we can continue to protect and defend the Bill of Rights...Charlton Heston, my thoughts are with you my friend. "From My Cold Dead Hands...."

Mike Hammer

[John Jr]

QUOTE

what does that have to do with finding replacement parts for your Colt 28? they haven't been made for 80 years.

If you can get 6K out of a parts kit then more power to you. As you said yourself, part out the parts kit and sell it for more money, why leave 3K on the table? Hell, you can buy a mac with that much extra money!

If you shoot a Colt TSMG with its original parts you are asking for trouble. Every shot that goes downrange devalues the weapon. The better condition the colt is in, the more it will bring.

If I owned a Colt TSMG (which I don't and never will) the first thing I would do would be to strip every original part off of it except the receiver and replace with Savage WW2 parts. If something bad happened it would happen to a 1K parts kit instead of a 6K parts kit.

I guess that I just see this issue differently than colt freaks do. I am a Savage freak myself.

One more point. If you use replacement parts on a Colt you further erode the value of the gun anyway. It would no longer be a correct example, but a mixmaster. (There are no such things as "Original" Colt TSMG's, they were all examples of number 26, the Original Original!)

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Pat K,
Exactly! It has absolutely no bearing on the price of Colt TSMG parts.

Mike,
If the 86 law was a factor regarding the prices of Colt TSMG's, then why did it take nearly 15 years from the implementation of that law for prices on these weapons to escalate? That isn't a "delayed" reaction; that is a non causation. They weren't making this weapon before the law was enacted, so where is the connection? Surely the then currently manufactured WH TSMG's value would have been directly impacted, yet they were also frozen in value until half a dozen years ago.

I think it is a mistake to lump in C&R NFA weapons with other NFA models. The C&R are collected and valued not merely for their full auto features, but because they have historical significance and are indeed antiques.