12 replies to this topic

[Bob]

I now have a 1928 that runs like a 1921! And two more drums that run like a watch. Dumped both drums with one pull and a couple hundred rounds in sticks with no failures. If you have a '28 ya gots ta have PK's mod kit!
That saving ammo with a reduced rate thing is a load of crap...GO-FAST Big time

[The1930sRust]

Bob, that's one of Paul's modified 28 actuators and special pilot and buffer, right? Got any pictures?

[Bob]

Here is a pic...yes I have a crappy camera. couldn't be the photographer




And to Phil:

I have some very fast guns, Mac 10/.45, UZI modified with a semi buffer, MG42 and MG3. I do better with the '21 speed than the '28 speed. I also have a Chauchat and my mind starts to wander between shots. The M3A1 is not much better but that has a suppressor so that makes it kool.

The only reason for a slow machine gun is to conserve ammo.....IMHO

[TSMGguy]

PhilOhio: Excellent thoughts on rates of fire.

Years ago, as a Cavalry officer, I was privledged to spend a week with a German panzergrenadier unit in Bavaria, along with my platoon. This was called "interoperability training" and was much enjoyed by all.

At the time, the standard US light machine gun was the M-60. The Germans used the excellent MG 3 (which was based on the wartime MG 42), and we had the chance to fire all of their organic weapons as part of the week was spent in becoming marksmanship qualified per Bundeswehr standards.

The MG 3 had a very high rate of fire, and the Germans employed it as a point-fire weapon. I was highly impressed with its extreme accuracy and controllability. Qualification was conducted on printed targets with a color poster-like diorama with all of the targets to be engaged. The entire poster was about four feet high and 15 feet wide. Each individual target had a circle around it of about 7 inches diameter, and I recall thinking how hard I thought it would be to keep rounds inside of that circle, full auto, at the 30 meter range we used. Using the short burst techniques taught by our German hosts, it was very easy to put the required five rounds into each circle, as the burst was finished before the gun had a chance to move much. If your bursts were too short, you didn't have the right number of rounds in the circles; too long, and you ran out of ammo before completing the course of fire. The gun was so controllable that qualification on the MG 3 was a breeze. Even qualification as an expert was not difficult.

Long bursts were not taught, but each of us had a chance to run an entire belt through the weapon, just holding down the trigger. The weapon vibrated, but was still very easily controlled with no muzzle climbing tendancy, and targets could be very accurately engaged at long ranges.

[PK.]

Phil, I have to take exception; we are not talking about a “hopped up "speed bolt" Thompson”. We are talking about the physical characteristics of a model 1921 Thompson. The re-machined ’28 actuator is processed using a 1921 A/O print and is, for all intents and purposes, identical to a Colt 21 actuator. The spring is a ‘21 spec spring and the pilot is only different in that it allows the use of ‘28 buffer pads.

After installing these components, you have a gun that shoots just like a 1921 model; approximately 850-900 rpm. If you recall your history, the first prototype TSMG’s made fired in the 1200 rpm range. The designers felt quite comfortable with the cyclic rate of the ’21 design and never would have changed it except for the money they felt would be generated by the Navy contract.

I know you are not implying that all owners of ‘21s can’t hit their target or are “speed freaks” or that their guns are constantly jamming. Truth be told, many find the faster cyclic rate of the 21 to be smoother, more balanced and easier to hit with than the 28. I would venture to say that most do. I have not met anyone (so far) who did not prefer the 21 after shooting both models side by side.

Faster is not always better, neither is slower always the answer. The trick is to find the rate at which a particular design functions best; it may very well be that this was accomplished in the 1921 model of the Thompson.

[Brickyard]

Well, I've got to chime in here for a minute. Been gone for a while ... bee sting kinda thing ... film at 11:00

Have to echo the SOOO HAPPY coment from above. PK too provide me with a 21 kit and a, very nicely I might add, re-worked drum. My pup runs so well it's just great. I like the speed of the 21. I find it far more stable than the 28 and, frankly, I'll switch back and forth for sure but honestly, the 21 kit is great and will be the version of choice.

Thank you Mr. K !!!

PS - CA, I'll try to get some pics up soon.

[Johnny.45]

Bob,

It's good to hear your TSMG and drums run so well.
I'm looking into getting a '21 kit from PK also.
I've heard the original '21 design was very smooth, reliable and efficient and was changed mostly due to pressues from the military who were prepared to order TSMGs
only if the cyclic rate was decreased.
Anyway, thanks for the report and Congratulations.

Johnny

[LIONHART]

Congrats Bob!

[Bob]

Ah, yes another that likes the Chauchat! You really have to shoot one to appreciate the worlds first assult rifle! I think the bolt feels like it moves about a foot till it goes bang

[Kevin]

I converted my 28 to 21 standard and I like it much better that way. I think Thompson got it right the first time.

[JimFromFL]

I would be interested in a "slow down" kit. Has anyone heard of any?

Reloading has helped reduce the rate of fire and the controllability, but I would like to get it where I can get single shots in full-auto mode.

[Bob]

Jim,

Mine all have a lever on the side of the lower that you can switch to the low speed setting right above the mag release....it's called semi!



Sorry just couldn't resist

[The1930sRust]

Jim:

Do you drive slow in the fast lane, BTW? Couldn't resist either!