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Holy Grail Of Thompsons? A Dillinger '21ac


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#1 GonePostal

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:25 AM

Good grief!

The gun plus some accessories and historical articles. My guess is the wooden gun itself would be worth some big bucks to the right collector. It's obvious the seller knows very little to nothing about the C3 process as he / she calls it a "level 3" dealer that would have to handle the transaction.

http://www.gunsameri...s/976560173.htm


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#2 John Jr

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:37 AM

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#3 colt21a

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:37 AM

well i own one of the plaster cast dillinger death mask's also..and the latex/rubber mold was sold in chicago at auction to a collector in england for over $15,000.00 the dillinger museum has one,bill helmer has one,and the chicago police museum has one on display also...so probably a few more then four........and i wonder if that gun came out of the vegas area.........there was one with that background floating around that area a few year's ago..............take care,ron

most important info was in the original j.d.museum,so a buyer would really have to check it all out.......homework class start's now!! wink!
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#4 Ron A

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 01:13 AM

Sometime back there was a posting on Ebay by a person selling masks of famous people and a his death mask was offered. I have seen this offer around 3 times over the years on Ebay. Not sure if mask is a real death mask.
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#5 philasteen

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 07:03 AM

A dealer in PA has a dillinger death mask, so that's 5.

What's the consensus on this package, is it geniune?
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#6 Norm

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 07:53 AM

John Jr..... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#7 full auto 45

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 09:21 AM

I thought all of the Dillinger gang guns were in the hands of the FBI, and Lake county Sheriff? And the death masks are on evilBay all the time.
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#8 TD.

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 09:30 AM

I checked out the serial number (NO 9155) in Gordon's book and it was not recorded. Gordon has a section on known Dillinger guns and NO 9155 was not mentioned. I sent Gordon an e-mail. Maybe he will have something to report. Perhaps, at the very least, it is another previously unknown registered Colt Thompson (and C Drum) back in the marketplace.
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#9 LIONHART

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:52 AM

Hey Colt21a,

I had one of the Original Masks that was authenticated years ago by the late Joe Pinkston. A friend of mine has it now, along with a few other good items...Including items he obtained from me that had once belonged to Dillingers Father, Sisiter, Ect..

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#10 LIONHART

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:46 AM

Just received the following from the Seller:

Hello,

Thanks for the inquiry! This collection is actually owned by a 6 time Indianapolis 500 driver that I will get in touch with him as to how long he has owned it. I do know he was the person who gathered and acquired everything and it seems to me that it was sometime in the late 70's or early 80's. There is a truly unique and documented story regarding the Thompson and how he acquired it. I will be sure to let you know as soon as I get in touch with him. Let me assure you everything here is in museum condition and is very unique. I have attached a few of the photos of the items below.

Please let me know if I can answer any other questions. I guess I should tell you I am not a dealer of any kind. I usually list items for people on Ebay but since you can't sell gun on Ebay that is why I came here.

Keep in touch,
Dan Distler


1. The final remaining privately owned and documented John Dillinger Gang Thompson Sub Machine Gun # 9115. Mint condition and yes it is complete with its case, 25, 50 & 100 round clips. It is documented by Thompson and several Police Forces from when it was stolen to when it is believed "Baby Face" Nelson brought it to Indiana.

2. One of four "Original" John Dillinger death masks. A death mask is a plaster mold that the FBI would make after they captured and killed one of the 10 most wanted. This mask was obtained from the Indiana State Police officer Gene Ryan who was in on the gunning down of John Dillinger. Perfect condition so detailed it shows his mustache!

3. A letter written by John Dillinger's older sister telling about John.

4. A very complete scrapbook full of pictures of Dillinger and his gang. Plus more gangster items. Just a couple of many shown below:

5. Newspaper clippings from the days Dillinger was committing his robberies and more.

I have them but not scanned yet. They are very fragile.

6. A replica of the wooden gun John Dillinger used to breakout of prison made by John Dillinger cousin. It's a little fuzzy due to the scanner:

7. An actual poem John Dillinger in prison.




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#11 colt21a

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE (LIONHART @ Feb 20 2005, 10:52 AM)
Hey Colt21a,
I had one of the Original Masks that was authenticated years ago by the late Joe Pinkston. A friend of mine has it now, along with a few other good items...Including items he obtained from me that had once belonged to Dillingers Father, Sisiter, Ect..

joe pinkston was a good friend of mine...i have the whole history on those,and had the original dental mold in my hands and on display in about 1991, there could have been about ten or twelve masks done of the mold... bill helmer and myself even did one in chocolate,and had that on display at a chicago gun show.harvey il.

and before i moved i sold it to a guy who owned "dillinger dog's"...{ a hot dog stand} some local paper wrote a story about that....when i saw that i thought it was a joke,the owner made up some fangled story about how he bought it... nice to track down memory lane..since i have it packed away.and have not looked at it in year's..i still have the 8x10 med pics also...the last one i sold as a package with the "mason city gun"

there are more then four...however two molds are out there...however the later one might have fallen apart by now..

bill helmer still has the dillinger eyelashes,taken out of the latex from the original first cast made...in a glass vial with light's...{creepy huh?} wink!!

anyways they do exist....and on the gun,it might be the one i talked about in vegas area....it was in a local sheriff's office...with arrest records and such...and a tale!

historic thompsons are out there...i owned four myself.besides the st.valentine's piece.sold that off in 1989, fully documented.including the sgt.loftus report and pic's and all........great history there...

a nice post glad i remembered.

take care,ron
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#12 LIONHART

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:17 PM

Ron,

I not only owned an authentic Mask, but I also owned a Dillinger Wooden Gun that Joe believed could have been the original, or one made up by John, or a German Craftsman hired by the Dillinger Family in the 1930's. According to Joe in reference to my Wooden Pistol, it would have been impossible to have duplicated it, without having the other one present at the same time. Joe had taken at least a dozen photo's of my Gun next with his, and also made several diagrams of my pistol. He believed in may have been the authentic Pistol that John was holding along side his Thompson outside of his Fathers Home. (Joe also provided several hand written letters stating all of this)

I had corresponded with Joe quite often. He was a good hearted Soul, and his sudden, mysteries death, was a shock. The lady from the Museum had called me a day after Joe died to give me the news. Of course a lot of strange things had happened there following Joe's death..

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#13 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 02:23 PM

I had Dillinger's famous soap gun, but my wife used it to bathe my German Shepherd. Now I am selling clumps of his fur as having been washed by soap that Dillinger used to make his break from jail. Since my Shepherd is a direct descendant of Hi-Ball, the dog that witnessed the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, his fur really commands a premium price from gangster era collectors.....
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#14 LSU Tiger

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 02:38 PM

Arthur... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#15 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 02:56 PM

GH has #9115 as being last owned by Bob Harkey back in 2001, with the original owner being the Muncie, Oklahoma PD. and then the the Munice, Indiana PD. Seems back in 1946, this TSMG was found in the house formally lived in by Harry Copeland, a sometime member of the Dillinger gang. It was then turned over to the Muncie, PD from whence it originally came from.

Did Dillinger himself ever touch this gun? Was it used in any robbery or shoot out? The latest update is that the house was really the former address of Stewart, not Harry, Copeland, the ex-Police drummer. So the Law Enforcement theme remains intact. The one thing we know for sure is that this TSMG has an affinity for any town called Muncie.

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#16 LIONHART

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Feb 20 2005, 02:23 PM)
I had Dillinger's famous soap gun, but my wife used it to bathe my German Shepherd. Now I am selling clumps of his fur as having been washed by soap that Dillinger used to make his break from jail. Since my Shepherd is a direct descendant of Hi-Ball, the dog that witnessed the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, his fur really commands a premium price from gangster era collectors.....

Funny one Arthur... laugh.gif
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#17 colt21a

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 05:27 PM

i own two of hi-ball's low-ball's in glass case on the mantle..{who has a mantle anymore?}

heck my st.val's piece was nice,however now it sits in the guys safe in ? probably to never see the light of day... and on joe i talked with him the week before they found him...suicide,hard to really believe.there is more to that story then meets the eye..

anyway good storie's............take care,ron

p.s. and the guy is about $90,000.00 high on his price....and unless it was at the scene of some robbery.with proof,or some other form of history....just being there in the house means nothing....dillinger was gone in july 22,1934 anything else afterward is mere speculation.. on a "good gangster" story...

heck i still have one of the lexington "capone" deskset's..and not selling it...but it would not bring alot of ching anyhow...

well will see t.g.rear's it's ugly head again wink!

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#18 Ron Mills

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 06:41 PM

I have a mantle, ron, just to let you know...wink! Really, I do.
Of course there is the Dillinger Overstamp gun with his name carved in the buttstock; it sits in a museum in Racine. Used to be in the lobby of the P.D.; now you gotta pay $5 to see it ("museum entrance fee"). I'll run up there sometime and nab the serial #. I used to have it, as I took a pic of it in the P.D. lobby (anybody else have a pic of it they can post?). Very nice job on the name carving. You know, gotta have something to do on the "off nights", as we say. Looks like JD took his time.

Interesting dissertation about #9115. Good reading for a snowy Sunday.
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#19 TD.

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 06:56 PM

I see the seller has corrected the serial number in his ad from NO 9155 to NO 9115. This is how it was first posted:

This is an authentic John Dillinger Gang Thompson Sub Machine Gun s/n 9155
along with rare items. This gun was stolen by Baby Face Nelson. This fully
documented and unique collection also includes the following: 1 of 4
Dillinger Death Masks, Dillinger Hand Written Poem, Hand Written letters
from Dillinger's sister about John, Complete photo scrap

I can tell from the Post sub-heading it was NO 9155 when first viewed by GonePostal too. Nice to know I am not going crazy... unsure.gif
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#20 colt21a

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Ron Mills @ Feb 20 2005, 06:41 PM)
I have a mantle, ron, just to let you know...wink!  Really, I do. 
Of course there is the Dillinger Overstamp gun with his name carved in the buttstock; it sits in a museum in Racine.  Used to be in the lobby of the P.D.; now you gotta pay $5 to see it ("museum entrance fee").  I'll run up there sometime and nab the serial #.  I used to have it, as I took a pic of it in the P.D. lobby (anybody else have a pic of it they can post?).  Very nice job on the name carving.  You know, gotta have something to do on the "off nights", as we say.  Looks like JD took his time. 

Interesting dissertation about #9115.  Good reading for a snowy Sunday.

had that racine gun in my hands back in the late eightie's..it's browned now,and about a phone book size worth of documents on it..i have a black and white pic someplace of it.{before they really knew what they had..now its a celebration in the town.


the last chief thought it should sell for $500,000.00

not many people today can even afford to live in 500,000.000 dig's..so not many guns at that price......

heck i bet the average house price is around $200,000.00 now. whats dat ??about four thompson's with drum's in value.. wink!!

take care,ron
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