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The Examiner Takes A Hand


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#1 Sgt

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 07:12 AM

Ok, after 5 months of waiting for the m-1 to transfer on a form 4, I decide to do some aggressive inquiries. I reach the desk of my examiner. She said that the fingerprint cards haven't come in. I mention to her that it has been five months and feel that something is wrong. She takes my information and home number and said she would find out the problem, in her own words, "walk it through."

So do you think she is blowing smoke up my barrel, or will she really facilitate this stalled process? What do you think happened? I haven't committed any felonies since my last transfer. Just a little frustrated, I am. You can tell this is really bothering me, when I start talking like Yoda, on Star Wars, I do. Is it time to call my representative yet. unsure.gif
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#2 TNKen

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 07:36 AM

The "don't have the fingerprint cards back yet" defense is their standard answer for delay. They can shift the blame to the FBI Crime Lab and we have no idea who or where to call to verify anything. I think they have a little printed card that sits by their phone with standard defenses.

She may be blowing smoke depending on the examiner, but they oftentimes are helpful, and sometimes even do what they say. Follow up on Monday.

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#3 DINK

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 07:54 AM

Give the lady a chance, fer chrissake! If this is the first time you have contacted her, then chill out until you have a better idea of what she can or will do for you. In my experience, once you finally make it past the voicemail system and have a real conversation with your examiner, things move quickly. It's very easy for one form to get lost in the shuffle and until you bring it to the attention of your examiner, nothing is going to happen.

A polite but firm inquiry usually brings results. You may not get a return phone call, but there's a very good chance the missing form will appear in the transferor's mailbox within a week. At least give her that long before you start calling your congress critter.

Patient you must be.
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#4 leid

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 09:07 AM

Hi guys,
Corporate transfers are going thru in as little as 3 weeks, so NFA Branch is doing their part. Checking fingerprint cards for NFA transfers is a low priority for the FBI. And given the times at hand, the FBI is just a little busy. Dink has it right.
Carey
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#5 snipershot1944

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:26 AM

Check your email box for the name of a gentleman at ATF who helped me in the past. Send him an email detailing your issues and perhaps he will help you out.

Sniper
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#6 Sgt

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 08:41 PM

Good point guys. I'll give it a little more time and see if the lady comes through. Thanks Sniper for the the contact. That may come in handy.
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#7 snipershot1944

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 09:14 PM

Don't mention it. A guy from this board gave it to me when my MP40 was tied up. I emailed the guy about the delays, the voice mail messages never returned, and the promises never kept, along with a copy to the branch chief, and had a phone call back from him within 25 min. saying that I was approved. 5 min. later, an email confirming that appeared.

I think the copy of the email to the branch chief "motivated" them a bit.

It was worth the 90-day wait.

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#8 DC Chris

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:26 PM

Well - I waited 210 days before I called "bullshit" and got tired of the same old story and excuses when I called to
politely check my status . Sorry DINK - I don't agree with your opinion. The federal government works for us and five months is very much enough time to lick a stamp, punch some keys on a keyboard and mail an envelope. If you want to be a victim, go ahead and justify your wait but don't give others bad advice to make yourself feel better.

Funny how calling my congressman got my form "un-pending" and made my "missing finger print report" appear and approve my form four and put it in my dealers hand in seven days total from initial contact to my congressmans "constituent services department." The congressional staffer actually called me within 24 hours of my initial contact and said my form was in the mail. And damn if it wasn't.

Bottom line - I wish I called bullshit at 150 days.

Ralph - Good luck and take the bull by the horns and get your gun. Fax a letter to your congressman as soon as possible.

Chris.
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#9 DINK

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 08:05 AM

If I'm reading your post correctly, then you're describing a very different scenario. Sgt posted that he had contacted his examiner for the first time and was asking if he should escalate his inquiries. In your case, (although it's not entirely clear) you apparently waited 210 days after first contact with your examiner to go further up the chain and apply pressure. Believe me- I would never have waited that long!

Once I get through to my examiner and have a real person-to-person conversation (not voicemail, which they tend to ignore), I will wait ONE WEEK to see results. If I don't have a satisfactory result, my next call goes to the examiner's supervisor. He (or she) also gets ONE WEEK to deliver. If that doesn't work, Mr. Houchens gets a call. My first transfer was in 1981, and I have never failed to get a quick response using this system. Sorry your experience was different, but the only advice I gave Sgt was to give the examiner ONE WEEK for a response before reacting. I never advocated sitting around waiting for 210 days!

Sorry, but I don't think my advice was bad, and I don't feel like a victim. You're free to disagree, but I have reread what I posted, and I fail to see anything resembling the "bad advice" you object to.
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#10 Sgt

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 08:38 AM

Sorry for the confusion. My actual first contact with the examiner was about a month ago. She said the fingerprint cards were delayed because of the holidays. This most recent contact is the first time she said she would actually do something about it. I don't mind waiting, but I think the wheel is running out of grease.
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#11 DC Chris

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 06:56 PM

DINK-

Wrong - you are now making up statements and reading my posts wrong. I did not wait 210 days before my first contact - try 90. This was the worst transfer and worst customer service that I have ever received from the ATF. I followed up, left messages, spoke to examiners, faxed letters and spoke to supervisors. And still nothing. Don't believe me? My story is well documented on this forum... do a search for it if you care.

I find it laugable that you actually think that with the current state of affairs of the NFA branch that one should trust that the ATF is going to do all it can to take care of your paper work issues and problems. Everything you described I did and it didn't do jack shit except waste my time. Once I got my congressman involved it magically was resolved.

Telling someone to "wait" and "relax" because the ATF is "doing its job" is bad advice. Agreed you have to be a little proactive after 4 months, but my point is I had the same attitude as you described and all it did was cost me time. The ATF employees don't care and there doesn't seem to be a system of checks and balances to catch things like this.

If he doesn't start asking questions and making a fuss, it will be another five months or more. I don't want to see Sgt go through what I did - namely assuming that these people were doing their job. I wish I would have contacted my representative earlier.

Chris.
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#12 DINK

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 08:16 AM

Dude- I'm not the enemy.

I stated right up front that your original reference to 210 days wasn't clear and I accepted the possibility that I was misinterpreting it. You said "I waited 210 days before I called "bullshit"..." and it wasn't clear where your examiner came in and what steps you took. That's why I said "If I'm reading you post correctly..." I've misread things in the past, and will probably do so again. There's no malice intended.

OK- you had a bad transfer. It happens, and it's true that NFA Branch has some less-than-motivated employees. I'm rereading my posts again, and I'm damned if I can find anywhere where I said that ATF should be trusted to do "all it can" to take care of my transfers. I don't think that and I never said that.

There IS a system of checks and balances- you used it when you called your congressman and got him involved. I also wish you had called sooner, but don't blame me for your decision to wait as long as you did.

I note that SGT has now posted that his first contact with his examiner was a month ago, so in my opinion (which is only another internet opinion and worth every penny you're not paying for it), it's time to start speaking with the examiner's supervisor. Once again, he should be polite, but firm and be prepared to document his complaint. He should have the specific dates he spoke with his examiner and detail the lack of progress he is having.

If that doesn't produce results, he should continue up the ladder (including his congressman) until someone actually does get his transfer moving.

Please note that I am NOT advocating that he sit on his thumb for five months or have blind faith in ATF's abilities.

God, I wish winter was over. I really need to get some serious trigger time in. (And PK better get my Tommy back to me before I start having withdrawal symptoms.)
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#13 Sgt

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 01:57 PM

The M1 paperwork was finally approved, so apparently the examiner did what she said, and walked it through. It should get to the dealer in a week or two, unless she walks it there too. (bad joke) Thanks all, for all your encouragement and advice. I will share pictures and maybe a video, if I can figure out this new technology.
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#14 LSU Tiger

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 02:22 PM

Good to hear it came through! I can't wait to see the pictures. biggrin.gif
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#15 TNKen

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 04:54 PM

Hey Sarge,

Who is doing your transfer in East Tenn? I still use Mark Scott in Chattanooga, cause I like him.

Ken
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#16 Sgt

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 05:40 PM

TNKen--
I use Craig's Firearms in Knoxville. I have a pretty good rapport with Dottie, who once straightened out some stalled paperwork for me. They are a little high on their service, but I also use them because they are closer to me.
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#17 Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 10:26 PM

Sgt. What was the examiner's name?
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#18 TNKen

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 10:29 PM

Sgt.,

Do you know the guy in Erwin that has his Class III? I forget his name. Picked up a few pieces when Shooter's Mark tanked.

Ken
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#19 Scoobie1

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 10:45 PM

TNKen, are you sure Mark Scott is in Chattanooga? If you're sure, that's one big coincidence then. My cousin in TN has the same name and is a Class 3 dealer, but he's up near Johnson City.
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#20 Sgt

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 11:11 PM

Roland --
No, I didn't get her name. I know I should have. I'll let you know when I get my papers. In the past, it has been approved by Savage. Interesting that Savage approved a Savage.

TNKen--
I don't know of a Class III in Erwin. If you have the name, please email it to me. That would be a convenient resource.

Scoobie--
Thanks for the tip. I'll do a search on the name.
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