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Thompson/kahr Warranty ?


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#1 nunzio

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 02:19 PM

First off, thanks for the opportunity to get some good help and info. I just obtained a long-awaited 27-A1, and it's kind of a bitter-sweet experience.
After years of longing for one of these cats, I finally managed to get into a new, unfired 27-A1 in a trade. That's the sweet part. The bitter part is that it "don't run". All the semi-auto maladys are there: won't feed reliably,(no biggie, I can fix that), won't fire reliably, and finally, BLOWS PRIMERS, every primer. All firing, all 10 rounds I got off before giving up in disgust, blew the primers on new factory Remington 230 gr. hardball. The gun cycled fine by hand and in dry fire, before the live fire. I tore it down & lubed it then went happily to the range. First round went o.k., but after that, nothing worked. Long story short, I contacted Kahr for some help, and they said send it in. That's o.k., but I gotta pay shipping, (probably around $40), to them. That seems kind of screwed up for a new unfired gun. According to the s.n., it's one of their first year guns, made in June of 2000. Obviously, it was in the shop a while before being sold. It was an unfired gun, no question. Does anyone know if there was a recall or predominant problem with the earlier guns?? What are my chances of getting back something that works and won't explode in my face? Is there a simple fix? I'm thinking there's at least a serious headspace problem or it wouldn't blow primers, but the tech I spoke to says not necessarily. Anybody know?? Jeeze, I HATE when this happens!! Any info greatly appreciated.
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#2 snipershot1944

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:06 PM

Please don't shoot the messinger, but since you were not the original purchaser, and the weapon is 5-years old (unfired or not), I would not expect a lot of help from Kahr. Unless of course, you filled in the warranty card and sent it in.

I think that PK on this board would be your best bet to fix the weapon so that it runs correctly.

best of luck

Sniper
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#3 nunzio

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:23 PM

Thanks, Sniper,

Kahr IS going to fix the gun, for free, that's a plus. What gripes me about the whole thing is having to pay for the shipping. That's not so much Kahr's fault, but UPS dings ya about $40 to ship a gun. Don't mind me, I'm just whining smile.gif I've owned God knows how many Kahr pistols and have found them to be high quality guns.

I'd really like to be out shooting this thing instead of sitting on my donkey waiting for it to be fixed. Who/what is PK??

Where can a guy get a decent rear sight??
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#4 Motorcar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 05:53 PM

Welcome to the board. "Who/what is PK?" Go through any of the fix it, or how to, or would you believe how good my gun looks and runs now posts, that will give you an idea of who PK of Diamond K is. Look for the "PK does it again !" posts for photos of his work. Also check the questions often asked section at the top of the board for more info. IMA sells original Lyman 1928 Thompson rear sights for $295. You will want PK to do the install with his custom rivets.

For all the bad things said here about Kahr, they have paid the shipping both ways on mine in the past and the thing does run like a top now. Mine is at PK's for the full cosmetics, and the work he has done on mine in the past was amazing. When it is all said and done you should have one you will really enjoy.
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#5 LIONHART

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:13 PM

Since kahr is going to fix your newly acquired firearm for free, considering that you weren't the original purchaser, and that the '27 is five years old is a plus. I wouldn't complain over the Shipping Expense.
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#6 John Jr

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:16 PM

Sell the piece of junk for whatever you can get for it and buy a Full Auto.

wink.gif
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#7 nunzio

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:12 PM


Yeah, I would dump it but it makes such a nice club wink.gif Anyway, I hope to have it running at some point.

Wether I'm the 1st owner or the 50th, it's 5 yrs old or 500 yrs old, it makes no difference. It was still screwed up from the factory and should be Kahr's responsibility to cover all costs. We're not talking about some cheapo import here. It's an almost four figure gun at retail, and should be 'right'.

That being said, I revert to my original question: Does anyone have an idea what might be amiss??

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#8 Ron A

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 08:02 PM

I purchased a Kahr several years ago before I knew the company had been sold to the monies - took the gun to the range and loaded a mag . Fired around 3 rounds, then on around the 4th round the round fired as it was being pushed from the mag. Blew the face off the bolt and drove the bolt back into the upper frame where it could not be removed. When the round exploded it set off the next round in the mag. and there was brass everywhere. Phoned Kahr and at my expense returned the gun. When it was returned it still would not feed every round and would not feed any ammo from a drum.

Face it - you purchased a piece of crap - send it to PK and spend the money to get it right or purchase some rope and you have a boat anchor.

Or follow John Jr advise - read the "many" posts on the board about the Kahr products - too bad you didn't read this board prior to your purchase.

PK can take this gun and make it want you expected in the first place - don't expect Kahr to do it!

You really didn't expect the gun to shoot did you - read Kahr's ad re: their new drums. They don't say the guns work - they already say the drums may not work. You purchased an expensive wall hanger.
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#9 Grey Crow

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 09:24 PM

I own a 2000 built Kahr 27A1, the problems I had were with magazine alignment and chamber size. Once these two things were corrected it runs like a top. My 27 was ordered in NIB, and yes it is very disappointing to take it out to shoot and have most of the rounds fail to feed. I never had any problems with blown primers however.

All of the changes were done out of pocket, never contacted Kahr.

I adjusted the mag catch to accept GI mags., from there it functioned very well.

PK did the chamber work. As well as some other nifty stuff making it "look" more like a 28. The chambers on the Kahr 27 are a little tight, opening it up to Mil Spec helped.
Another issue you should address is pinning the comp. They tend to shoot loose on the AO (Trast era) and the Kahr 27's, as do the rear sites. Accuracy is very good with the imitation ladder site on my gun, so I never swapped it out for the original Lyman site.

FWIW, None of my Colt pistols fed reliably out of box either, without at least a little feed ramp and chamber work.
So Kahr is not the only company putting out firearms that should have been kept at the factory for finish work.

Both PK, and Damon @ TommyGunner.com can fix what ever you need done.

Damon offers an extreemly nice slide release, and Dan Block fantastic replacement wood.
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#10 PK.

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 09:48 PM

The bolt/ firing pin assy on the SA Thompson has undergone some changes since it was introduced; lets call them original, transitional and current.

In order to meet the demands of the ATF to insure the gun would not fire automatically, the system was designed so the firing pin would protrude beyond the bolt face if was not caught and retained by the sear in the cocked position, thus preventing a round from being fed into the chamber and firing as the bolt closed. This original design persists to this day, but the form of the parts has changed.

The original firing pin was rectangular in cross section with a small nub to indent the primer on it’s end. The transitional firing pin, while basically the same, saw the sharp edges of the rectangle turn into full radii. Both of these designs do not support the primer as it is supposed to be because the aperture in the bolt face is larger than the primer in one direction, and nearly so in the other. In the early days we all gasped when we looked at fired cases, but actually blowing a primer was rare. Now days, it seems these same guns will blow primers frequently. I am becoming more convinced that there is a change in ammunition that may be responsible for this. Nonetheless, any design that will not support the primer is not a good one.

Enter Kahr.

The current Kahr design has modified the firing pin to have a longer cylindrical section and a round hole in the bolt. This is a marked improvement and I see no problems with these regarding blown primers, with one remarkable exception. Winchester has chosen (against all logic) to use small size primers in it’s WinClean 45 ACP ammunition ( you reloaders, take note !). Because of the initial design requirement of preventing a cartridge from being fed in front of an unrestrained firing pin, the diameter of the new style is larger than “normal” and will not support the small primer in the WinClean ammo.

If Kahr has offered to repair your rifle under warranty I would advise to send it to them and not complain about the shipping.

PS, heartfelt thanks to those offering kind words regarding my efforts, they are appreciated.

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#11 catnipman

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 08:26 PM

Please let us know if Kahr actually fixes anything. I bought 3 SAs from WH in mid-90's. Not a one of them worked. I sent a couple of them back a couple of times and never did they fix anything.
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#12 nunzio

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:19 PM

catnipman,
I'll be sure to keep you posted. I'm curious myself to see what Kahr will actually return when I send in my "non-firing replica". biggrin.gif My previous experiences with them and their products has been good, and I'm hopeful it will carry over to this gun. It's the first time I've ever had to return anything for service,'cause I just never had any problems with their pistols.

What did you finally do to resolve your issues? I e-mailed PK for an idea what it might cost me to get it right, but so far have not got a reply.

I think it's a pretty nifty piece of ordinance, and would like to get it working reliably, if I can just do it without getting a second mortgage on the house.blink.gifI just wish I had waited to shoot it before buying the extra mags & wood I bought.

Thanks to yourself and the others who have shared what they know!
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#13 catnipman

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 10:22 PM

Finally fixed everything myself by reading posts here and asking questions.
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#14 JimFromFL

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 08:26 AM

Yes, bravo for them willing to fix the item, BUT boooo on them for producing an item that does not work (just like my drum). Oh, and shame on us all for putting up with it. unsure.gif

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