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What's A New C Drum Worth To You?


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Poll: What's A New C Drum Worth To You? (92 member(s) have cast votes)

What's A New C Drum Worth To You?

  1. $300 (15 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  2. $400 (20 votes [26.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  3. $500 (18 votes [24.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.00%

  4. $600 (10 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  5. $700 (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  6. $800 (10 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

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#1 TommyGunner

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 05:51 PM

I spoke with a few vendors that are moving ahead to produce a new C drum. I have been told by all that the dies for the job...to do it right are very expensive. The cost of even the West Hurley C drums are well over $1000 so it would seem that any relief would be welcome. So I wonder....If someone produces a C drum the right way. Regardless of who. How much would it honesly be worth to you?
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#2 Norm

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 06:54 PM

Right now, I would be willing to pay a premium price for C drum made to true specs.

I think that it won't be long before the gun grabbers get another law passed to stop the making of high cap mags again.

Norm
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#3 deerslayer

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:50 PM

Since people are willing to pay $1200 or more now for a semi functioning C drum, then send if off to Merle for a few hundred dollars more work, it appears that may be a top limit. If you could make them for less than $1000, maybe $600-$800, I'd say people would beat a path to your door.
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#4 JimFromFL

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 08:43 PM

Since the ban has lifted, 72 round 9mm drums are $200.
100 round .223 Beta Mags are about $220.

So, why must I pay $1000 for a .45 ACP 100 round drum?

Plus, I can load plenty of 50 rounds drums. laugh.gif

Oh, and I am still kicking myself for paying $220 for the new 50 round drum. mad.gif
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#5 TommyGunner

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:29 PM

Phil,

Sorry but I have to dissagree with you on that one. To tool up the dies needed for the C drum to be to spec would cost over $300,000 (Doug Richardsons estimate) and that is the rock bottom. This is just for the dies and there are MANY other expenses. Others have priced this out to the western block and the numbers are just as bad if not worse. Business is business and any company that would lay out that kind of coin on startup would deffinately need to recover thier investment and that would never happen at $10 a pop...ever. Rarity also plays into the mix. There are not enough C drums to go around and this makes them valuable (don't we all know it). You can hardly compare a rare Thompson C drum to a dime a dozen Suomi Drum.

Again the drum that are mentioned Beta C (never stopped production) Suomi (dime a dozen and cant give them a way) Don't compare to a Mag that has to be tooled up from scratch, of the highest quality or everyone just complains....unlike a plastic beta C.

You get what you pay for. Those who expect low prices with high quality should put thier money where thier mouths are and produce one themselves...you will see how quickly thier tune changes once they learn what is really involved. Phill I would buy those $10 C drums from you by the Trainload as fast as you can make them so please do it!

To me...I would also pay a premium for a quality C drum.

End result...if the market demand does not warrant the investment we will never see the new drums I would wager. Do we want them or not?

Damon
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#6 Sig

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 05:10 PM

Damon
Well said.
michael
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#7 TD.

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 07:29 PM

AGREE
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#8 Mike Hammer

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 07:33 PM

Over $300,000 for the dies for a Drum? Were not make space shuttle parts here are we? laugh.gif I think a little shopping around could yield some better price estimates don't you think guys?

Mike Hammer
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#9 LIONHART

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 07:51 PM

AGREE...
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#10 Walter63a

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 08:00 PM

QUOTE (LIONHART @ Mar 30 2005, 07:51 PM)
AGREE...

I wonder if maybe some of the original dies aren't out there somewhere. blink.gif smile.gif Perhaps they and the rights to use them can be had for a bit less than $300,000.00, especially since no one seems to be using them now. Just a thought. cool.gif
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#11 Ron A

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 08:21 PM

If you think the price of an original C drum is high - just think what the original dies for an original C drum might bring. I question if someone had such an item they would even let production start using their dies. Those who think the original dies are out there some where are dreaming - there have been serious thompson collectors for over 30 years and this would have always been a hot item...

It reminds one of the story of people who went to Fl to look for the Bren 10 mags after Miami Vice shot a movie, looking the mags which the actors dropped from the Bren 10's during shooting. A true wet dream!

Original C drums will continue to climb in value - the ban had nothing to do with their value. To tool up for a C drum would have to be considered long and hard by investors. Those who think they will get a $200. C drum are the same people who purchase "kits" thinking that they will find a receiver and build a gun.

Dream on buckwheat!
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#12 JimFromFL

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 09:20 PM

Actually someone could contract out WH to simply build the drum body, right????

Give them the proper metal to use so they don't use tin foil.
Contract out someone to build the proper springs, right????

I am sure Merlin didn't purchase even a $100,000 machine to create the proper springs.

Basically, the tools and machines are currently available, it is the proper material and quality that is missing and these are the easier pieces.

If I win the lottery tonight (its $10 million), I will retire and take on this project myself. If i don't win, I am sorry to say, but someone else will have to tackle the job.
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#13 DC Chris

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 01:20 PM

I have to answer with a different motivation.

I have a tuned C-drum. It is a blast to shoot and I get a lot a pleasure from doing so. Thompsons are generally a more expensive gun to acquire, maintain and get accessories for. I did not mind dropping $1200 on a pre-ban WH C drum a few months ago before the AWB sunset.

I guess I don't mind paying more for a) something that I cannot easily get now and cool.gif something of good quality. I would absolutely purchase a new production C-drum if a vendor was going to produce them.

My (probably flawed) thinking says if a new production 50 round drum is approximately $250, a fair price for a new production 100 round drum should start at around $500. Of course there are startup costs for another vendor, so I think anything less than 1K is fair.

Just my .02. If you want to play you have to pay.

Chris.
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#14 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 06:55 PM

With apologies in advance to Phil if I step on his line of thought, there's more to making a C drum that works than just making a bigger L drum. There is a big problem with scalability beyond linear effects. (1) A very small mis-tolerance of any part at or near the shaft of an L drum translates into a very big problem on the outer area of a C drum. (2) Much more area for the moving parts (including ammo) to rub on (more sticktion to start and more friction when moving) hence more spring issues.

Hence the C drum is much harder and more expensive to make than the L drum. Size does matter.

So, whatever happened to the 80's WH C drum dies? What's going on with Mr. Hill's help to Kahr's C drum?
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#15 Walter63a

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (Merry Ploughboy @ Mar 31 2005, 06:55 PM)

So, whatever happened to the 80's WH C drum dies?  What's going on with Mr. Hill's help to Kahr's C drum?

MP, those are two great questions. biggrin.gif Were those and all the original dies [Colt, WWII era, Numrich, etc] lost or destroyed? blink.gif I doubt it. They are probably in someone's collection, or gathering dust in a shop or warehouse. rolleyes.gif cool.gif Regards, Walter
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#16 Sig

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 07:06 PM

From the discussion here the WH dies does not sound like something we want to produce again regardless.
They were not right and not being an engineer probably could not be made right without starting all over.
Either way, I'd pay handsomely for a correctly engineered repro C drum, if I knew it was right.
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#17 Ron A

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 09:03 PM

Its sad, but in WW2 I saw many things going into scrap piles - gun, dies and anything that was metal that could be melted down. Many mfg made a point of showing their support for the war effort and Colt was no different. At that point and time the C drum was a dog, never going to be made again and not a good seller.

My guess was that there is a good chance the dies went for the war effort. I remember seeing Colt 49 pockets and 1860 armys go into scrap. No different than the civil war muskets that Bannerman used for rebar in the building of his building. At this time these things were felt to be only metal that could be melted down or use for some other purpose.

A friend of mine was tooling up to make full auto BAR,s receivers just prior to the ban registration of additonal full auto guns - sunk several thousand dollars into machine and dies and saw his investment go down the tube when the legislation passed.

I think an investor has to think long a hard before sinking money into this project unless it can be done fast and on the cheap.

I have both AO C drum and a WH C drum and would pay at least $ 1000. for a good new C drum.

Its not that it cant be done - just a large risk for the investor.
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#18 Norm

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 06:09 PM

Maybe BETA will make a drum for it. wink.gif

It wouldn't look like a C drum, but it would shoot like one should!

Norm

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#19 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 12:08 PM

Actually, I sent an e-mail to Beta right after "the Ban" expired on that very question. I've yet to receive a reply. I think they have many other higher paying projects going right now.

MP
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#20 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 12:59 PM

Maybe Ares will make a belt fed mechanism and eliminate the need for the C drum altogether.
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