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West Hurley 1927 A1


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#21 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 07:35 PM

Dalbert,
The 24 year figure is really just the time it took Numrich to actually manufacture a "Thompson" from the time he purchased the crates from Willis. I am using the 1944 date (the point from which 30 years went by before any new "Thompson" was manufactured) as the final year of existence of the Auto Ordnance Corporation before Maguire began the his new company the "Auto Ordnance Division of Maguire Industries," that had nothing to do with Thompson's at all. Yes, the "Thompson" bullet logo became public domain as well as the name "Auto-Ordnance" and any patents.

Numrich merely revitalized the logo and name since it was there for the taking. He was not sold the original Auto Ordnance Corporation or the name "Thompson." But the fact that the name "Thompson," the bullet logo, and the name "Auto-Ordnance Corporation" appear on the WH firearms since 1975, these names could have been applied to any firearm claiming to be a Thompson after the 14, or 16, year period after 1944.

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#22 LIONHART

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 07:53 PM

And to think, Kahr ACTUALLY believed they were purchasing the original AO Corp in 1999, until......
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#23 TD.

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 10:20 PM

Arthur,
I don’t know why George waited before he started making what we now refer to as West Hurley Thompsons. Maybe he had run out of surplus receivers acquired with the 1951 purchase; maybe he had run out of import Thompsons and could not obtain anymore or import anymore into the United States; or perhaps he had many other irons in the fire making a lot more money.

I recall in a prior post – see the Thread started by Kyle titled, “NAC ‘28a1 For Sale” – that we agreed that contained in the crates purchased by George Numrich was the former Auto-Ordnance Division of McGuire Industries, Inc. As we discussed before, it is uncontroverted that Kilgore paid $385,00 in 1949 to McGuire Industries with the published intent to resale Auto-Ordnance Division to the Egyptian government because Kilgore thought the Egyptian government wanted to manufacture the Thompson Submachine gun. This deal was done with future manufacturing stated as the pretext. Even today $385,000 is a lot of money; imagine what it represented in 1949. Do you really think Kilgore paid that type of money for a few crates of parts and old machinery? I am sure a contract was drafted. I expect it was a very simple contract assigning all rights to the Thompson from McGuire Industries to Kilgore. To take it one step further, given the amount of money involved, I am sure Kilgore would have expected the Egyptian government to have performed some type of due diligence prior to making any future deal. In addition, I have never heard anywhere that McGuire Industries retained any rights to the Thompson Submachine Gun or ever claimed any future rights to the Thompson Submachine Gun.

The other transfers are easy. Willis got what Kilgore purchased. Willis was in or had been in the gun business. Willis certainly would have done some due diligence. And George Numrich certainly knew how to conduct business. Like McGuire Industries above, there is no indication that Kilgore or Willis would have wanted to retain any rights to the Thompson Submachine Gun when it left their respective hands.

No, I don’t have the contracts. But I am not the one that has the problem with all the transfers or has the need to prove something. The lineage from Cleveland, Ohio to West Hurley, New York is complete. Follow the Blish pistol. George ended up with it - and everything else. As stated earlier in this thread, George was quoted as saying in 1967 that he owned all the rights. I have never heard anything that indicated George Numrich was anything other than an honest businessman. Given George Numrich’s statement back in 1967, I think it is safe to assume he acquired the complete Auto-Ordnance Division from Maguire Industries.

The question of whether or not some or all of these rights expired or lapsed or became public domain while George was the owner of the former Auto-Ordnance Division of McGuire Industries, Inc. has nothing to do with the lineage of what General Thompson started in Cleveland, Ohio and ended up in West Hurley, New York in 1951.

but I do enjoy the discussion…why don’t you come to the Thompson Collectors Show and Shoot in August and we can discuss it further with everyone over a cold one at the Granville Inn biggrin.gif


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#24 First Sergeant

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 05:26 PM

Arther,

ARe you saying the Thompson bullet logo is no longer protected? I had figured Kahr had the rights to it now.

Chuck
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#25 dalbert

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 05:35 PM

My understanding is that trademarks can be renewed, so more than likely the A-O and Thompson logos are protected, and I would assume now owned by Kahr.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
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#26 floyd556

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

I have a late '80s West Hurley A1....


Does anyone know what the letter "P" stamped on trigger means??
looks like "OF" on inside of receiver??

thanks
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#27 Lancer

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

I have a late '80s West Hurley A1....


Does anyone know what the letter "P" stamped on trigger means??
looks like "OF" on inside of receiver??

thanks


You might have better luck asking your question on the Semi-Auto forum.
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#28 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

In answer to th eold question about patent life - my mistake. I looked at the chart wrong. Originally U.S. utility patents were for 14 years, but it had changed to 17 years by the 1900's. On the other hand, U.S. design patents still have a 14 year life.
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