8 replies to this topic

[TSMGguy]

http://cgi.ebay.com/...mMakeTrack=true

I've only seen a few of these. This is the first type US Army TSMG three cell mag pouch for XXX magazines, loosely patterned after German MP40 pouches. XXX mags are a tight fit! Both types of oiler fit fine in the space provided. See page 353 of Tracie Hill's book for a photo. The one in my collection is in new condition and is of a medium green different from the more typical OD shade #3 or #7 period canvas. The black leather is correct as well.

Someone just might get a bargain. Either that, or the snipers will be out in force as the auction ends!

[2dogsfightin]

I have one of these. I always thought it was from some foreign military and just happened to fit Thompson Xxx's. The leather strap just didnt look US. The guy I bought my M1A1 from threw it in withe the deal. He said it was a rare version. I just figured it was BS. But I guess he may be right. What is the smaller pouch designed to hold?? Mine came with a small oil can in it.....


2Dogs....OUT

[Bill in VA]

Hmmm... I've got one that's very similar to the ebay pouch, but it has a shoulder strap. I never have figured out what it is. The other differences are: a small pocket on the left-hand side, a "Lift-the-Dot" snap on both the small side pocket and the main flap (with two male snap ends on the bag itself), and a very narrow pocket on the rear (also with a "Lift-the-Dot" closer and a brass grommet at the bottom...almost like a drainage hole for a dirty cleaning rod.) If I drop an XX magazine into it, even with the lower snap, the pockets are a tiny bit too deep, but with XXX magazines, the upper snap fits them perfectly. No marking on it that I can see either.

[gijive]

QUOTE (TSMGguy @ Apr 6 2005, 10:49 PM)

This is the first type US Army TSMG three cell mag pouch for XXX magazines, loosely patterned after German MP40 pouches.

TSMGguy,

What is the reference source for believeing this is the 1st type U.S. Army three cell magazine pouch? The Hill book just pictures the same pouch and refers to it as a three cell pouch for Thompson magazines, it doesn't specifically mention an early U.S. Army prototype.

Since the U.S. Armed forces had already adopted the five cell XX pouch patterned after the original five cell magazine pouches sold commercially with the Colt guns, it stands to reason that the XXX web pouches would be similar in design as witnessed by the USMC marked three cell XXX pouches. Besides, why would they provide an oiler pocket (that wasn't present on the five cell pouches) then drop it later?

By that time of the war production was somewhat standardized and contractor markings and dates were traditionally seen on all manner of web gear. If the pouch you are referring to doesn't have contractor markings and/or manufacturing dates, I would be skeptical that the pouch is WWII U.S. production.

It appears to me to be more of a foreign made variant, possibly adopted to be used with Thompson XXX magazines. Maybe if you could provide photographic documentation of U.S. Army use during WWII, the premise that this is the first type U.S. production pouch would be more convincing.

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

I was told those are vietnam era pouches designed to hold mags for the swedish K or other similar guns for special ops forces. It wasnt made specifically for the Thompson although the mags do fit. These are often called CIA pouches. Dan

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

Hey Roland, I like your alias, but seems I 've heard it before.

Roland

[gijive]

QUOTE (TSMGguy @ Apr 7 2005, 09:35 AM)

The Army realized that the 5 cell XX magazine pouch was a less than perfect solution for carrying TSMG magazines. Remember that these were adopted before the US entry into WWII, and were largely replaced later on by bags

TSMGguy,

Your analysis of the reasoning behind looking for an alternative to the five cell web pouches all make sense and I agree that the five cell design was adopted prior to 1941. Most examples of the five cell pouches used by the military, however, are dated 1942 after the U.S. entry into the war. The web drum pouches are also normally marked 1942 or no date at all such as the Boyle manufactured pouches.

There is photo documentation of the five cell XX pouches being used well into 1944 at D-Day and beyond that. I don't believe I have ever seen any photo documentation of U.S. Army troops using a three cell XXX pouch. The various magazine bags issued seem to have served that purpose after the adoption of the XXX magazines.

In fact, I don't know if I have ever seen any photo documentation of the U.S. Marines using the three cell XXX pouches that are so prevalent on Ebay and elsewhere. They are all dated 1944 and I wonder if they were ever issued any any large quanities to combat troops? They almost always seem to be in unissued condition, even the ones I saw many years ago at gun shows. I suspect they were mostly unused surplus items sold after WWII.

I believe I would still like to see some photographic documentation of the pouches you describe as being WWII U.S. issue. I don't believe I have ever seen one in the WWII U.S. reference books I own or have seen. I have collected WWII U.S. uniforms and gear since the 1950's and haven't seen the pouch in question ever referred to as U.S. military issue. I hope someone else can shed some light on the origin of these pouches.

[Hawkeye_Joe]

The seller states that this is a reproduction.. strange that he didn't know what of....

[2dogsfightin]

Now that you mention it the Dealer I bought my M1A1 from called it a CIA pouch?? I didn't remember that until someone brought it up on this topic. I dont know how he knew it but he is also a cop? It does not seem to be made of heavy canvas like my WWII 5-XX mag pouch. It "feels" foreign to me, but I am certainly no expert.


2Dogs......OUT