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1928 Thompson Found Behind Closet


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#21 Walter63a

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE (LIONHART @ Apr 14 2005, 10:19 AM)
Damn fool should have kept his mouth shut!

Damn right Lionhart! cool.gif That was his big mistake! laugh.gif Then he should have taken little Tommy to see the sights in Alaska, Montana, Aizona, or Texas, etc, where they both could permanently and anonymously reside in peace, on a 1,000 plus acre sanctuary. The only crimes, in my book, are the 1934, 1938, 1968, and 1986 Federal Laws (concerning full-auto weapons), reducing free men to subjects of the state. mad.gif Those laws need to be repealed. cool.gif

Regards, Walter
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#22 Sgt

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:10 AM

QUOTE
i thought that guy moved out that 28 year's ago. i lived in lockport.il. homer ,township..that gun was sold i am sure about 15 year's ago. a 1928 military if it is the same one.


One possible defense occurs to me. Couldn't this be legal as a grandfathered MG, if the owner was still alive and the gun were registered? I know, these are big "ifs", because no one alive would leave a Thompson behind.
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#23 colt21a

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:19 PM

guys that is probably a colt...the one i am talking about is a military 28 model......so i guess it's still out there!! in lockport someplace.i know the sheriff in will county.he's a ex-marine......so i can see him wanting to keep it..they sold #3151 awhile back.{i think that was the number}

on the original finder.dumb dumb dumb.

do the research first!! wink!

and he ain't ever getting it back........

and to think he even gave them the ammo.nice haul for the p.d. take care,ron
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#24 anticus

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:00 PM


I found this in my Uncle Werner's junkyard, and I'm keepin it !!user posted image
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#25 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:07 PM

Joe Hosey's article in the Herald News is another example of the media's invincible practice of reporting misleading, confusing and overall erroneous information that would be painfully obvious to even a neophyte firearms reader. Hosey states that this TSMG, an obvious 1928 Savage model of WWII vintage as shown in the photo, and alluded to by the Sheriff as a 1928A1 Model, is 76 years old since it has the 1928 model date stamped on the receiver. While one could forgive the staff writer dolt, the ex-Marine Sheriff's pronouncements are disturbing:

"Sheriff Paul Kaupas, a Marine, Vietnam veteran and longtime law enforcement officer, is well-versed in the history of firearms and appeared pleased by the recovery of the legendary Tommy gun. He said this particular weapon was manufactured for the Navy, but could be legally purchased by private citizens in the 1920s."

The WWII Savage TSMG was manufactured for the Navy? And how could a firearm not manufactured until 1940 be purchased in the 1920's? It seems that the allure of the gangster era is just too overpowering for Hosey and Kaupas to distinguish this WWII TSMG from the Colt 1921/28 Navy model.

But what makes this find more unusual than if this was a Colt 1928, is how did a 1940 Savage TSMG, only available to the military at that time, wind up in civilian hands to be squirreled away behind a wall in 1940, if the ammo dated receipt is accurate? Was this an armory stolen TSMG, a pilfered TSMG from Savage Arms, or what?

Judging by the inaccuracies in the article, there are not even enough facts available to make any informed determination.

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#26 colt21a

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:58 PM

if it is a military 1928 and not a colt........that explain's it.....and paul is a great guy,he has seen the elephant.... and made it back................like in v.c.

wink!! take care,ron

p.s if it is a 1928 military..maybe it is lenny's.......it used to like to bury thing's...
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#27 p51

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 11:20 PM

QUOTE
Joe Hosey's article in the Herald News is another example of the media's invincible practice of reporting misleading, confusing and overall erroneous information that would be painfully obvious to even a neophyte firearms reader.

But what makes this find more unusual than if this was a Colt 1928, is how did a 1940 Savage TSMG, only available to the military at that time, wind up in civilian hands to be squirreled away behind a wall in 1940, if the ammo dated receipt is accurate?  Was this an armory stolen TSMG,  a pilfered TSMG from Savage Arms, or what?

That's what the media does. And they're good at it. A weapon stolen from, say Savage's factory or a National Guard unit, isn't nearly as glamorous as a bootlegger in the 1930s hiding it away from Al Capone. And news people are into entertainment. They also write stories with a pre-concieved notion of where they want the story to go. I've been to lots of public events and later read the stories, wondering what event they'd been to. I worked for a newspaper in production for four years after I got out of art school. One of the copy editors once said to me, "In a newspaper, you can only trust the box scores." How true.
I do find it funny to find out that so many of you know this was a post-1940 production weapon. Before getting on this fourm and getting a copy of American Thunder, I thought I knew about Tommy Guns, but now know that I don't know Jack.
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#28 LSU Tiger

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE
"In a newspaper, you can only trust the box scores."


Truer words were never said. Of course, this Local-Yocal cop probably doesn't have a clue about a tenth of the NFA rules. But enough to know the Office can keep it.
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#29 KilroyisHere

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 12:57 PM

Stuff like this has happenned before. I know a fellow in Clarksville, Tn a retired Navy man, who was tearing down an old house and up in the attic, there was a complete .30. Another friend of mine, who has been collecting guns since he was 12, found a BAR in '77 or '78 while helping renovate an old police station. He knew the COP, the chief pulled some strings, and Mr. Cook was able to keep it. My luck is just not that good.
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#30 21 smoker

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 04:03 PM

Whenever Cops and my machineguns meet I spend the majority of the time educating the police on the rules and regulations of the NFA...the rest of the time is spent wiping their drool off of the MGs..or other bodily fluids... huh.gif
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#31 ACARLG

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 07:21 PM

With the number of accounts of pistols, rifles and other sundry weapons found in the walls, nooks and crannies of old houses, it's a wonder someone doesn't do a Home Improvement tv show on them...

Chicago Trib waying in...

THE BEAT: SOUTH & SOUTHWEST

AROUND SOUTH COOK AND WILL COUNTIES



If walls could talk, secret of past might be revealed

Published April 17, 2005


LOCKPORT TOWNSHIP -- The house that Andrew Mayes of Lockport recently bought turned out to be a bit like a box of Cracker Jack: It had a surprise inside.

The surprise was secreted behind a wall in a closet Mayes was knocking out while rehabbing the home in the 200 block of Reverend Walton Drive in unincorporated Lockport Township, police said.

There, in an old gunnysack, was a 1928 A1 Thompson submachine gun, a version of the repeating rifle favored by gangsters and G-men alike during the Roaring '20s.

Seven boxes of ammunition were found alongside the "Tommy Gun," which was said to be in pristine condition.

"It's similar, but it's not exactly the same as the gangsters used [in the movies]," said Will County Sheriff Paul Kaupas, who noted that police and officials with the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will try to trace the gun to an owner.

The find presents intriguing possibilities, Kaupas conceded. Was the house a rural hideout for some of Capone's boys?

Not likely.

"We traced the residents and the house, and there were no known gangsters who lived there," Kaupas said.

But who knows? The guns, precursors to similar weapons used by the military, also could be purchased by civilians for recreational use or protection, Kaupas said.

"We're going to try to trace the weapon through the sales number and see if it goes back to the military," he said.

Another clue as to who owned the gun could come from a receipt that says the ammunition was purchased June 15, 1940, said sheriff's spokesman Pat Barry.

Attempts to reach Mayes, who turned in the weapon Tuesday, were unsuccessful. Kaupas praised Mayes for reporting the find to police.

Barry put the gun's value at about $10,000. But the law limits the ability to sell the gun to a collector or a museum. Kaupas said state law prohibits civilians from owning automatic weapons, and federal law says the gun may have to be destroyed.

The age of the gun also makes tracing it a challenge because information about it is likely contained on paper records.

"Because the gun's so old, a lot of this stuff will have to be hand-checked," Barry said.

For now, the gun will remain in the sheriff's police armory, where a few similar weapons are stored.

Meanwhile, the mystery remains.

"It could have been used for self-protection, but why was it hidden in the wall?" Kaupas wondered.

Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune

Edited by ACARLG, 17 April 2005 - 07:32 PM.

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#32 LSU Tiger

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 05:59 PM

I saw this happen. I was in a local flea market on a Saturday afternoon, checking out the wares of a militaria dealer, who was a sort of buddy of mine. An older lady came in carrying a department store shopping bag under her arm. She asked to speak to the dealer, and explained that her husband had died recently, and as they were cleaning out his work shop, "we found this." She opened the bag and pulled out an MP-40! The dealer stuffed back into the bag fast! She said she wanted to see if it had any value and wanted to sell it. He told her that if it wasn't registered in 1968, it was illegal. She gasped and I thought she was about to cry. "Wait a second," he said and made a call, glancing at the bag and the woman as he spoke. After he got off of the phone, he whispered to her, and her mood changed for the better. Not twenty minutes later, a man, whom I recognised from local gun shows, but didn't know, showed up, gave the woman an envelope, and left with the bag. Later, I learned he was a collector of WW II German stuff, and bought the MP-40 for $1,000. That was 1981.
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#33 colt21a

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 07:45 PM

he got ripped off paying $1,000.00 in 1981,the going rate for a mint matched one with extra's was that price...however maybe he sold it to charlie manson....he owned a 40 when the busted him........now wouldn't that be a tale!!wink!! take care,ron

p.s at least the widow got something>>>>
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#34 Walter63a

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (LSU Tiger @ Apr 18 2005, 05:59 PM)
I saw this happen. I was in a local flea market on a Saturday afternoon, checking out the wares of a militaria dealer, who was a sort of buddy of mine. An older lady came in carrying a department store shopping bag under her arm. She asked to speak to the dealer, and explained that her husband had died recently, and as they were cleaning out his work shop, "we found this." She opened the bag and pulled out an MP-40! The dealer stuffed back into the bag fast! She said she wanted to see if it had any value and wanted to sell it. He told her that if it wasn't registered in 1968, it was illegal. She gasped and I thought she was about to cry. "Wait a second," he said and made a call, glancing at the bag and the woman as he spoke. After he got off of the phone, he whispered to her, and her mood changed for the better. Not twenty minutes later, a man, whom I recognised from local gun shows, but didn't know, showed up, gave the woman an envelope, and left with the bag. Later, I learned he was a collector of WW II German stuff, and bought the MP-40 for $1,000. That was 1981.

It's doable, but most human beings lack the discipline to keep their mouths wired tight for any length of time. ohmy.gif blink.gif cool.gif
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#35 ACARLG

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 02:26 PM

Hope springs eternal. biggrin.gif

Tommy gun squabble not over

Lockport Twp. rehabber may get to keep rare find

Thursday, April 28, 2005
http://www.dailysout...st/283swyt2.htm

By Joe Hosey
Special to the Daily Southtown

A Lockport Township man might have a better chance than he first thought of keeping a 1928 Thompson submachine gun that he recently found hidden in a house.
An agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Andrew Mayes has some hurdles to clear in his effort to keep the valuable gun, but he could do it.

Mayes — a local minister, youth basketball coach and real estate investor — found the Tommy gun behind a wall in a Lockport Township house he's rehabbing.

The gun was wrapped up, along with a cleaning kit and about 400 rounds of ammunition. The ammunition was accompanied by a 65-year-old receipt from Barrett Hardware Co. in Joliet.

The gun was in excellent condition, and experts said it could be sold for at least $10,000.

He turned the weapon over to Will County Sheriff's police to check on it, but he expected to get it back.

"They took it, and they're going to do what they want with it," Mayes said. "What right do they have to keep it?"

Sheriff Paul Kaupas sent the weapon to the ATF to be traced, something that may prove difficult given its age. Kaupas said the department cannot return the Tommy gun because under Illinois law it's illegal for a person to possess such a weapon.

But ATF special agent Thomas Ahearn said Mayes, who says he holds a firearm owner's identification card, might be able to get the weapon back.

Ahearn said Mayes would have to go through a background check, register the gun with the ATF, find a federal firearm licensee to take temporary possession of it and get a letter from either his local police chief or mayor approving the sale of the gun.

Mayes does not regret giving the gun to sheriff's police but would do it a bit differently if given another chance.

"I would have still turned it in," he said, "but I would have had a lawyer deal with them right from the beginning."

The Herald News of Joliet

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#36 Warden

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 03:08 PM

I would like to see Mr. Mayes get the '28 back. I doubt that it's going to happen though. Illinois has some really screwed up laws, but if somehow Mr. Mayes can legally have the Thompson returned to him to keep, would that be the first step to overturning the stupid state laws concerning NFA weapons? Just wishful thinking on my part. Dave
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#37 Sgt

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 03:34 PM

I also would love to see the gun given to him, but isn't it strange that there was no mention of the specifics of the loop hole. It sounds like the ATF agent was explaining the general process of MG ownership and someone jumped to conclusion that this was somehow a concession. Sure hope I'm wrong, though! If he does get it back, the ATF will have to apologize to a lot of past closet Thompson owners.
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#38 Warden

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 03:46 PM

We'll see. I'm thinking that he might be given the weapon after the receiver is cut or without the receiver at all. I still hope that he gets that 1928 Thompson back in original condition, just as it was found. Dave
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#39 Ron Mills

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 03:53 PM

I don't see how he could get it back intact. Illinois = NO CLASS 3. Period. Like Sgt. said, ATF would have to get back to all the other guys they said "No" to. My bet is that it won't happen. I've never known this state to bend a Class 3 law. I have an Illinois Firearms Ownership ID card; can I have that Thompson...wink!
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#40 Norm

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 05:15 PM

Maybe.....

if it is on the NFA register (doubtful sad.gif ), AND....

it's not stolen, AND....

he can find a class 3 dealer in Illinois, AND.....

he can find a person willing to store it in an NFA friendly state, THEN....

he might be able to keep it and go visit it when he wants to shoot it. wink.gif


If it is registered, they should at least let him sell it.

If it is not registered, I do not think he will ever see it again. Hopefully, they would let him have everything back except the receiver.

My $.02 worth.

Norm blink.gif
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