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So How Much Did The #114 Sell For?


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#21 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:05 AM

QUOTE (colt21a @ May 19 2005, 07:57 PM)


i will ask 1.2 mill for my last one...and get that trailer in malibu....and feed the seagull's...

take care,ron

bawahahaha.... malibu?? i take it you're only lookin for a single wide.....
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#22 colt21a

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ May 20 2005, 11:05 AM)
QUOTE (colt21a @ May 19 2005, 07:57 PM)


i will ask 1.2 mill for my last one...and get that trailer in malibu....and feed the seagull's...

take care,ron

bawahahaha.... malibu?? i take it you're only lookin for a single wide.....

i thought more along the line's of a 55 gal.drum.along with shower stall.and a bucket for a krapper..wonk!

we all can't have everything.........just a little of GOD'S green earth!!

take care,ron
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#23 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:24 AM

QUOTE
nope,i'm just a figment of arthur's imagination.
and the person he alway's wanted to be....the yoda of thompson's...wink!! or what maybe a carnie named yo-yo??i forget!
Ron

Are you still piqued that I once referred to you as "the sometimes recondite Ron" in a post on Sturmgewehr? I'd thought I had bowed to your renowned legacy as a prodigious dealer in TSMG's. However, I do think you need to publish a glossary of your lexicon as Tony Burgess did with "Clockwork Orange." Then we would be assured to ascertain even the most subtlest of nuance in your March of Time posts.

But what I said in the Sturm board post still holds true. With all due respect to your grayer head, one needn't engage in NFA commerce to appreciate the minutia of the merchandise, or "moich" to you.

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#24 colt21a

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ May 21 2005, 01:24 AM)
QUOTE
nope,i'm just a figment of arthur's imagination.
and the person he alway's wanted to be....the yoda of thompson's...wink!! or what maybe a carnie named yo-yo??i forget!
Ron

Are you still piqued that I once referred to you as "the sometimes recondite Ron" in a post on Sturmgewehr? I'd thought I had bowed to your renowned legacy as a prodigious dealer in TSMG's. However, I do think you need to publish a glossary of your lexicon as Tony Burgess did with "Clockwork Orange." Then we would be assured to ascertain even the most subtlest of nuance in your March of Time posts.

But what I said in the Sturm board post still holds true. With all due respect to your grayer head, one needn't engage in NFA commerce to appreciate the minutia of the merchandise, or "moich" to you.

art i thought you would like the yoda guy 800 year's old and all knowing.

recon ord.might have thought it was a remark about him..

clockwork orange..........thats about as good as event horizon. a twisted sister story at it's best...


remember in life if we ever have to explain ourselve's.

all is lost.

now folk's get back to thompson talk............before we go off to some far galaxy jive talk....and bore everyone to the house of 1,000 insanitie's.wink!


who woulda thought??

take care,ron
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#25 Sig

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 07:46 PM

Picked up some information regarding other Thompson items from this auction.
Also it seem that #114 had a gavel price IF I am reading my information correctly of $37.500 plus 15% buyer premium ($43,125) and less 20% seller premium from the gavel price ($30,000).

As for other items starting with a metal spare parts kit.

A Blued steel box, 6-1/4 inches long and hinged lid. Not a reproduction.
Was for a 1921 or 1928 & included: firing pin and spring, extractor, hammer pin and spring, brass pull-through with bristle brush, steel pull-through, and a nickle plated first style oiler. It was all in Unissued condition and the seller had a copy of the original invoice from dec 28 1979.

Low/high pre-sale estimate was $2000/3000.
It sold for $4000 + 15% buyers fee (17% if paid with CC!)

Other thompson stuff:
Lot 176, Orig AO 50 round drum for 1921 - $2000 + 15% (Serial # 1581)
177 Miniture non-firing model of Thompson M1 - $500 +15%
178A Worchester Press stamping 50 round drum for 1921 or 1928 - $900+
178B Seymour 50 round drum for 1928 - 850+
Lot 62 1928 WH gun (12000/15000) - $10000 + 15%
Lot 63 1928 A22 (22 cal.) WH gun (12000/18000) - sold for $7000 + 15%
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#26 John Jr

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for the update and correct pricing information.

QUOTE
Picked up some information regarding other Thompson items from this auction.
Also it seem that #114 had a gavel price IF I am reading my information correctly of $37.500 plus 15% buyer premium ($43,125) and less 20% seller premium from the gavel price ($30,000).


Still seems to me the seller could have gotten 30K real easy in about 5 minutes on any gunboard.

rolleyes.gif
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#27 ftc3906

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 08:47 AM

Do I understand correctly that Generous Joe Devine makes 35% of the hammer price. 15% from the buyer PLUS 20% from the seller???

What is wrong with this picture?
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#28 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 10:35 AM

Devine is hardly unique in his Black Hand usury fees. Butterfield's, Christie's, and Sotheby's auction houses all do business in the same fashion and they even demand sales tax if they have a branch in your state. And a mail drop is considered a branch.
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#29 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ May 27 2005, 10:26 AM)
QUOTE (ftc3906 @ May 27 2005, 08:47 AM)
Do I understand correctly that Generous Joe Devine makes 35% of the hammer price.  15% from the buyer PLUS 20% from the seller???

What is wrong with this picture?

Everything.

And John, Jr.,

I think we have to conclude that most owners and prospective sellers of Thompsons never heard of this board, where they might get up to speed. They do not keep up with pricing and all the other trivia relating to something they have probably owned for many years, and have no idea how to go about selling their Thompson when, for some random reason, they decide to do so.

They think a logical solution might be to find some sort of auctioneer specializing in uncommon firearms. And one of the visible ones, who probably turns up in any search, is your favorite buddy, Mr. you-know-who, with the shiny dome and crooked used car salesman's smile.

And then they and the buyer both get multi-Kahred, as ftc3906 has figured out.



Wait a second.... As a person who does auctioneering I have to ask.... how much would you charge? Gun dealers look at 50 to 100% mark up when they buy and sell..... The auctioneer does all advertising, takes care of all the paperwork.... Let me ask you again.... What would you charge to auction guns off?
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#30 colt21a

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 03:08 PM

wow 50 to 100%% greed at it's best!!..

tell me how to find these gun's i can buy for say $5,000.00 or so.and price them at $10,000.00 or more....

i just put a bunch of stuff for sale at cost....and what do i get is offer's for even less.........and i am below any dealer on the net.shotgun new's or gun list............

i guess i don't hang in the circle's of people who sell for nothing at all!!

and i hate auction's anyhow!! wanna sell it? PRICE IT!! and be done with it..........

do i feel bad for somebody who doe's just pay and not ask?/not really.........if they have mo -money then brain's and can care less for whatever they pay for gun's or anything else then let them play.............

but pleeeze daddy............50% to 100% profit...not in my dream's...and not in my wallet...then again.i'm a po boy..however honest!

take care,ron

p.s. have i ever been given the benefit back from one of my buyer's...a fair shake and deal?? NEVER!!!
that's life....
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#31 Bob

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:35 PM

Here ya go John;

Link to 21/8
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#32 John Jr

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 11:00 PM

Ok....

Gun dealers don't make 100% on the average. Mine charges 10% on Title I stuff. My Title II dealer in state is John Norrell and he charges $100 per xfer.

How much should a gun dealer make? All he can. I have no objection to that and never will. Mr. Devine is an asshole of the first order, but that is a different story all together.

I would be much less reprehensible of Mr. Devine if he offered his services at a fee of 5% per side. This would be more than enough compensation for the kind of service he offers. Filling out paperwork that you can find online for free and paying for advertising (which most auctioneers make the seller pay for up front) is irrelevant.

No broker or auctioneer is worth 35% no matter what they are selling. Try a different approach to defending Mr. Devine, Z3bigdaddy.




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#33 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 12:26 AM

Johnny,

Yeah 10% on ordered guns maybe... but not on guns you have to inventory and sell….. So on a $500.00 gun they make fifty bucks before overhead of 47% at least…. Not much of a profit….. So if you had a gun shop and someone brought in a gun that you “might” sell for $500.00 you would give $450.00 for it? Give me a break, you would last as long as your savings account and then Devine would have to auction off the remainder for the bankruptcy court. Just for fun take one of your guns to Mr. Norrel that you paid 10% over on it, and see what he will buy it for outright......

Ronny,

cumon you have been dealing in guns long enuff to know how it goes….. now I have to admit class III is a different animal as prices are pretty firm…. But with guns you buy to resell, you have to build in enuff profit to protect yourself from the market going soft on your purchase…. you can tell me you always paid top dollar but you know it ain’t true…. OK so someone drops a SAA Colt on your table that you think you can get a 1,000 bucks for…. How much do you offer them?


but pleeeze daddy............50% to 100% profit...not in my dream's...and not in my wallet...then again.i'm a po boy..however honest!

What honesty is equated by how much you don't make?? I'm sorry but just because I get a good deal on a gun I don't feel obligated to pass it on... But I've never had anyone pay more for a gun because I overpaid for it..... I've made some pretty big mistakes too.....

I sell stuff here to board members at cost or even just give it away because I've been turned on to some good deals here.....
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#34 colt21a

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 12:59 AM

you have not had the good fortune to buy anything from me...wink!!

and yep semi stuff you might make a few buck's....let me tell you my f.n.five seven pistol fiasco..invested $40,000.00 in the gun's ammo and accs.sold it all for $42,000.00 nobody was buying.........i don't even want to tell you about the 44 post sample's...and the l.e.carbines i dumped right before the ban at a grand a pop....now selling for $1,300.00 or better..

now you know why recon ord.has had a 20 year relation with me..he's addicted at making money off me!!

sold a bunch of thompson stuff here last year.......great stuff nice price...and all original good's.........no complaint's and people asked for more of it!!

now since the market is soooo bad!! can't find the good deal's anymore to pass them on.and make a few buck's to feed the horse's..

and the beat go's on.......also that s.a.a.colt for $1,000.00 what first gen or third?...yeah i know about them to....in 33 year's as a ffl/sot not much i have never come across...and nobody ever offered one for a 1,000.00

my best deal was a tiger drag last year for a ar-15 trade even up....i made a whopping $200.00..........

the one thing i do best is move gun's,not hold on or fondle them too much..........so i can eat once and awhile,pay my license fee. ins.and stamp's and net time....

remember it started out as a love,and turned into a bee-otch!!

now i am slowing down.........almost dead stop now!!

some wish they could have owned, and seen what i have in life!! to me it was a natural thing to do..

sorry in life some did not have the same experience......maybe the way they played the card's they are dealth..any regret's YEP!!

that more people could not enjoy class three at a fair price.>in the old day's............

now a new future is on the horizon for the new blood..will they enjoy it?will they honor the history?only time will tell!!

and big daddy........keep pluggin and keep the faith......and in the end...that's all you will have left!! and maybe that $1,000.00 s.a.a.colt.wink!!

i am sure i have put a few spur's in people's behind's since i came to this site!
was that ever my intention?nope!
that's just the way they looked at the post's...and sometime's they just read into them too much.

it's rather simple...FUN!

how else you gonna enjoy white castle's on a friday night?

take care,ron a.k.a. krinkov,a.k.a. mossad 1 and recondite master of the universe and the nether region's...of goof dorf!

you's guy's gotta get with the humor!!
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#35 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 01:20 PM

What would I charge, Z3? I'd do the math, honestly calculate my overhead, risks, liability insurance requirements, etc., allow a bit for underestimation, and I'm guessing I would end up somewhere between 5% and 9%. If I could not do it efficiently, honestly, and profitably within that range, I would not deserve to be in business.

Well I guess you all are just better business men than I am.... So you would have to run a gross of what $350,000 to $700,000 to make a living wage? And that doesn't even address that pesky thing called taxes...... There is know way I could run a popcicle stand for 9%.... My insurance office, which has no inventory, runs at over 50%..... Which btw is apples and oranges, as is your real estate example.... I have a bunch of guns to dump if anyone wants to give me 80% of the retail value, I'll sell you a few piles of them.....

On general auctions around here, the fix seems to be 10%. Or so they try. Occasionally that is negotiated down somewhat, depending on the size of the sale. I regard 10% as a rip, any way you slice it. And I know this may raise shouts and moans and contrived excuses from those doing it. Oh my, the overhead, the expenses, the advertising, oh my, oh my...

Where do you live? I can check the rates really quickly.... Depending on size of the auction would that even cover payroll? Five people working is minimun 40 bucks and hour plus work comp, 14% employ tax, comes to about fiddy bucks an hour just for support staff....
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#36 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:13 PM

You really don't get it do you? Walmart??? We're talking a guy sitting at a table, or in a gun store.....

The offer still stands all my guns ar 80% of retail.... And that it twice what Wallmart makes....

Last post on this thread.....
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#37 John Jr

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE
Last post on this thread.....


Thank God.

I would probably give the fat old guy a L drum just to bail out of the board all together.

tongue.gif
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#38 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 08:30 PM

Around here, realtors charge 6-7%. That is just a brokerage fee. They aren't putting money into something. If I spent $100,000 on a piece of property, I'd want to make more than 4-5% or 6-7%. Real estate brokering is the place to be. Around here (Central FL) houses sell themselves. The realtors rake in the bucks for little work.

If you have a gun shop just dependent on sales of guns, ammo, accessories, I don't see how you can do it on a 10% mark up. If I had to pay employees, put food on my table, pay the shop bills, rent x 2, power, insurance, etc. , unless I was doing nonstop sales every day, it would not be possible at 10%. Gun shows, Internet, Wallymart and Sports superstores seems to be steep competition for shops. Ya gotta have a good smith, too. Just rambling here.
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#39 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE
The Wal-Mart executives are better businessmen than both you and me, and they do not deal in B.S. Just realilty, and cut throat competition. I mean, the real kind, without rigged rules, interlocking monopolies, and paid off state and local politicians. How I love those guys, and patronize them to the exclusion of everybody else, whenever possible.
Phil


But the Walton family believes that the federal government should pick up the check for their employees health care benefits. It seems they pay them at a level just beneath the cut off amount so they can still qualify for welfare programs.
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#40 Walter63a

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ May 28 2005, 06:29 PM)
Z3,

The Wal-Mart management team would laugh at every one of your contentions and then, if they felt they had the time, explain how they squeak by, make a few of those impossible profit bucks, become the nation's largest employer, and are spreading all over the globe just about as fast as they can recruit and train managers and staff.

And they are not working with anything as high as a 10% figure.

It must be a miracle.

I suspect the business facts and principles taught in their managaement training program might be quite a bit different than your understanding of marketing and resale, at least as you explain it here.

You should let them know that what they are doing can't be done, and how they need to begin marking things up "50% to 100%" to survive, like those hard working gun dealers. laugh.gif

The Wal-Mart executives are better businessmen than both you and me, and they do not deal in B.S. Just realilty, and cut throat competition. I mean, the real kind, without rigged rules, interlocking monopolies, and paid off state and local politicians. How I love those guys, and patronize them to the exclusion of everybody else, whenever possible.

Phil,

I could not have said it better. There are so many unprincipled assholes out there who prey upon the gullible, innocent and naive. I hate dealers, speculators, and common businesspeople/ criminals (thieves, sharp dealers, rogues, chiselers, scoundrels, etc). Bring me a rope! blink.gif ohmy.gif biggrin.gif cool.gif

Regards, Walter
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