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Correct "model Of 1928"


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#1 Gunner

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 09:27 PM

I bought a WH 1928 a couple of years ago. Runs like a champ, but now it's time to send it end to PK for a total overhaul. Wood will be by Dan Block. This brings up the question of what "Look" I should go after. I've decided that, since the receiver is stamped "Model of 1928," I should make the gun impersonate a "Model of 1928." Problem is I know just enough to be dangerous. In other words, just what exactly was a true "Model of 1928?" (A WH would not fit in the category of a true 28.) I think that 1928 overstamps should be excluded -- and so should 1928A1's. What does this leave ? Early Savage military and commercials? Did Auto Ordnance also make 1928's, or were they just 1928A1's?

Next step, once we've identified the "real" 28, what did they look like? Vertical foregrip, shiny blued finish, knurled actuator and selector paddles? 21 style or 28 style contour on rear grip? Buttstock would be non-crossbolt, but would it be contoured in 21 style or 28 style? Sling swivel?

Thanks, guys! And I'll keep you posted on our progress.
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#2 gijive

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 07:53 AM

QUOTE (Gunner @ May 15 2005, 09:27 PM)
Next step, once we've identified the "real" 28, what did they look like?  Vertical foregrip, shiny blued finish, knurled actuator and selector paddles?  21 style or 28 style contour on rear grip?  Buttstock would be non-crossbolt, but would it be contoured in 21 style or 28 style?  Sling swivel?


Gunner,

The 1928 Model really only referred to the slowed down rate of fire by using the weighted actuator and modified recoil spring, buffer and pilot. The early Savage 1928 Models were standard with the Cutts Compensator just like the 1928 Navy Model Colts, but probably could have been ordered without one. It seems most had the vertical foregrip, but again, the horizontal fore grip was an option after 1928 so it could have been ordered that way also.

The finish on Savage Commercial guns probably would have been blue, but it's possible the receivers were matte finished like the military guns. I don't think they were the high polish blue of the Colt guns. The early guns would have had the knurled actuator, safety and fire select lever.

As far as the grips are concerned, the Savage grips seem to be slightly fatter than the Colt grips and as military production increased the grips became less finished, depending on manufacturer. Any Savage made early war grip would be acceptable. Regarding the butt stocks, I'm not sure what you mean by 1921 or 1928 configuration? The non-crossbolt would be correct, but the basic shape of the buttstocks for the 1921 and 1928 Models didn't change. There are slight differences in finishing depending on the contractor during WWII, but essentially any non-crossbolt stock would be appropriate. The sling swivel was usually standard on 1928 Navy and Savage 1928 Models, but I'm sure a police agency could have ordered one without a swivel. Auto-Ordnance was always eager to please the customer.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your project.
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#3 bug

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:59 AM

If you're looking for a "neat" look, go with the original. That would be a 1921A. I was at a show recently and there were two West Hurleys on the table. One was in the standard, run of the mill 28 configuaration but the other one knocked my socks off. It was set up as a 21A with no cutts, slender 21 wood, knurled acturator, rocker and safety. If I were doing what you're doing, that's what I'd do.

Bob D
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#4 gunrunner

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (bug @ May 16 2005, 10:59 AM)
If you're looking for a "neat" look, go with the original.  That would be a 1921A.  I was at a show recently and there were two West Hurleys on the table.  One was in the standard, run of the mill 28 configuaration but the other one knocked my socks off.  It was set up as a 21A with no cutts, slender 21 wood, knurled acturator, rocker and safety.  If I were doing what you're doing, that's what I'd do.

Bob D

I agree and am planning on doing this with my WH just as soon as it transfers. I was talking with a guy in the know and he suggested the same guy for wood(Dan Block). He also suggested Doug Richardson for colt correct bbl. He takes a savage/a.o. bbl and turns the fins down to look like the colt. You will need a bbl that is NOT threaded for a comp. The finish would be the next hurdle , does any one know who can best match the original colt blue? Sounds like a neat project.

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#5 Norm

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 04:03 PM

I went with the 21A configuration on my "firing pin gun" and I love it. biggrin.gif

You will notice a difference in in the way it shoots (without the comp.)

Norm

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#6 Mike Hammer

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 05:00 PM

You will notice a difference in in the way it shoots (without the comp.)

Norm: Can you describe the difference in shooting without the comp, is there significant muzzle rise on long bursts?

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#7 OldFalGuy

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 06:13 PM

I would like to hear the comp/no comp answer also as I have been pondering doing the same with my WH- going 21A style with a high luster blue finish, paddle selectors etc. It runs just fine which is probably a shock to many but I don't care much for the WH selector switchs-lossey goosy things.

By the way, does anyone else feel the stock is a little bit long? I'm 5' 8" with 34 inch sleeves for reference point. I would like to trim a stock down at least 1.5 inches- Like it is it feels a little funky.

Mark
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#8 Norm

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 06:27 PM

I have only shot one Thompson with a comp on it. It was a WH28 with a 21 type internals. When shooting a full L drum burst, the gun tends to ride mostly backwards into your shoulder. It's like someone is pushing the gun (almost) straight back into your shoulder.

Without the comp, my gun seems to want to "rise up" more than push backwards. It is like someone is pushing up on the barrel and down on the stock; like some one is trying to "rotate" the gun. I lean into the gun very much when I shoot it and I can keep all 50 shots in the same area.

The non-comp version also likes to "spit fire" more, because there are no comp vents to release any gasses.

Another nice thing about my gun is it is easier to clean; no comp to clean out.

My gun is not a standard Thompson design. It is a registered conversion of a 27A1 (via Broadhead Armory firing pin), so I am sure that my gun has many odd characteristics that other are unique to my gun.

Anyone visiting the memphis, TN area is welcome to shoot it.

Norm
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#9 Gunner

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 09:29 PM

I think 21's are cool, but I want this gun to be 28. Question is, what is a true 28 as opposed to an overstamp or a 1928A1?
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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE
I think that 1928 overstamps should be excluded -- and so should 1928A1's. What does this leave ? Early Savage military and commercials? Did Auto Ordnance also make 1928's, or were they just 1928A1's?   Gunner


A true 1928 IS a Colt overtsamp Navy Model of 1928 as altered by Auto-Ordnance in 1928 with the addition of a Cutts Comp. A 1928 Savage/AO, whether it has a suffix or not, is also a "1928" model. Since your platform is a WH, any additional camouflage will still fall short of your desire for authenticity if not genuineness.
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#11 Kevin

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 01:47 AM

The 21/28 WH that Norm shot also has a custom stock. The buttplate is stock but the comb is 2 inches higher so the stock does not have quite the dog leg shape of an original stock. Much more straight line than the original ( this was done to fit a red dot scope). The bore sits lower in relation to your shoulder making for less rise during firing. Although I think the comp does help.
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#12 gijive

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 07:03 AM

QUOTE (Gunner @ May 16 2005, 09:29 PM)
I think 21's are cool, but I want this gun to be 28.  Question is, what is a true 28 as opposed to an overstamp or a 1928A1?

Gunner,

As Arthur previously mentioned the first 1928 Model was the overstamped modified Colt 1921A Model. It was standadrd with Cutts compensator and slowed down rate of fire.

The Savage 1928 Model differs only in that the roll-markings "Model of 1928" doesn't have an 8 stamped over a 1 and doesn't have the A1 suffix. Minor cosmetic changes as war production increased, i.e. checkered actuator and fire/safety select levers didn't change the fact that the gun was refferred to as a 1928 Model.

Auto-Ordnance's Bridgeport plant only made the 1928A1 for war production. The A1 was strictly a military designation, it was still a standard 1928 Model with Cutts compensator and slowed down rate of fire.
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#13 1921A

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:48 AM

Gunner

The answer to your question is the Savage model 1928 made for export or domestic commercial sales (police). It was marked MODEL of 1928. No A1 and no U.S. markings. The receivers on these guns showed milling marks but were not as crude as U.S. marked A1's. They were bead blasted to soften the edges and DuLite blued. The original barrels were bright blue with thick squared fins and standard military comps. Most have knurled actuators and Fire control/Safety levers. Most seem to have British proofs on the receiver and pressure markings stamped on the barrel. I have one of these (S-110XXX) that came from a local Sheriff's department. It was lend-leased to GB and imported back to the states by Federal Labs in the 1960's.

The true Savage commercial guns are similar but have a smooth bead blasted DuLite finished receiver with bright blue barrel and comp. All controls are knurled and they have nickel bolts. Savage commercials have the NY, NY address on the right side of the receiver instead of the Bridgeport address. They are usually low numbered guns in the 15000 to 25000 serial number range. In my opinion, the Savage commercial is the most strikingly beautiful example of the Thompson line.

It is fairly simple to rework the WH 1928 to resemble the Savage Model of 1928. PK is the right choice to do the work.

Greg Fox
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#14 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE
It is fairly simple to rework the WH 1928 to resemble the Savage Model of 1928. PK is the right choice to do the work.
Greg

Simple? If Gunner really wants to approximate a Savage 1928 Commercial TSMG (or even a Navy overstamp) using his WH then that would require removing all the stampings on the right side of the receiver and re applying the appropriate Savage markings. Maybe Gunner would be better off buying a DR display receiver and making a dummy Savage Commercial TSMG.
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#15 1921A

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 05:18 PM

AF

Agreed. It would be a difficult and expensive job if that is what he is wanting to do. I understood him to be asking what a Model of 1928 should look like. I've "cleaned up" a few WH 28's to look like war production Model 28's. Easing the sharp edges, Dulite finish, knurled controls and a war production pinned comp go a long way towards making the Westy look "right." Remarking would be a real nightmare.

Greg Fox
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#16 Gunner

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:13 PM

21A,

You're right. I'm not trying to counterfeit a true vintage Thompson, I'm just having fun with a toy.

So, would a 28 have a sling swivel on the buttstock?
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#17 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:16 PM

Yes.
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#18 1921A

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:36 PM

Gunner

You asked if the Savage Model of 1928 has vertical or horizontal fore grip and how is the wood contoured. The 1928 is correct with either grip. The pistol grip is a little fatter than the Colt grip but finished nicely. The vertical fore grips are nearly identical to the Colt. The horizontal fore end is just like the later A1 fore end. Any WWII horizontal front grip would look right. PK can pin your WH comp to make it look like a wartime comp.

Greg Fox
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