Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Get A C&r Ffl


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Norm

Norm

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2514 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis, TN
  • Interests:Thompsons (of course), Electronics, Physics, History, Mechanics, Collecting License Plates.

Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:40 AM

I am sure that someone out there can help me with this....

I may have to move to Missouri; according to information that I have been able to get, Missouri has some unique restrictions on NFA ownership.

A non-FFL can only own a C&R machinegun, but "C&R holder" can own any machinegun.

How does one become a "C&R holder", and what exactly does this term mean?

How much are the fees (taxes,etc.) and how often? Does it expire?

Any help that can be offered would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Norm

  • 0

#2 First Sergeant

First Sergeant

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 752 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West Ohio

Posted 26 May 2005 - 11:28 AM

C&R = Curio & Relic.

The license is $30 for 3 years and permits you to purchase firearms, including NFA, that are on the C&R list from other states. These firearms can be shipped dirctly to you if no transfer is involved or in the case of NFA weapons, as soon as the transfer is approved. the most common rational for being on the C&R list is any firearm manufatured 50 or more years ago. There are firearms placed on the list based on their uniqueness or value. The WH M1 Thompson is on the list yet it was produced in the 80's.

You can't buy/sell or otherwise deal in firearms but as a collector of C&R's it makes life so much easier. I've had mine for less than a year and have used it several times.

You will need fingerprints, a citizen form and send a copy to your local CLEO but no signature from them is required and of course the $30 check. It's one heck of a good deal. Good Luck

Chuck
  • 0

#3 Tman

Tman

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 490 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Interests:Firearms, in general

Posted 26 May 2005 - 11:29 AM

Norm,
Getting a C&R is pretty easy. Call your local ATF office (try to find the Industry Operations office) and ask for a packet for the C&R. It should have all the forms you need to get started. Or you can download the forms from the ATF website. Look for ATF F 7 (C&R) and the Citizenship form. The license is only $30 for 3 years. The term 'C&R' means Curio and Relic. The license is also known as the Collectors License. This license lets you purchase C&R firearms from a dealer or individual in any state and have it shipped to your door. You cannot purchase firearms for resale. You may make an occasional sale to improve your collection but not in any kind of volume or you would be considered to be 'in the business' and would need a regular 01 type license. You may also transport any C&R machinegun interstate without getting prior ATF permission.

Hope this helps.
Greg
  • 0

#4 Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland
  • Interests:Thompsons, Garands, All things WW2, Corsairs, Classic Guitars, Sex, Guns and Rock & Roll

Posted 26 May 2005 - 12:52 PM

I got my C&R last year and it did not require fingerprints. Has that changed?

They are great. I've purchased a Luger, Walther P-38, 1911A1 and a Vcitory .38 in the last year, all without having to deal with the state of Marylands handgun laws.
  • 0

#5 Roland the Thompsongunner

Roland the Thompsongunner

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 187 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:pa
  • Interests:I am into motorcycles both dirt and street. Musclecars, and WWII reenacting and weapons.

Posted 26 May 2005 - 12:59 PM

You dont need fingerprints for C&R. Roland
  • 0

#6 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 26 May 2005 - 02:27 PM

It took only three weeks to obtain my C&R License after sending the forms off. Now that I think about it, been going broke ever since! biggrin.gif
  • 0

#7 Bill in VA

Bill in VA

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southwest Virginia

Posted 26 May 2005 - 04:21 PM

QUOTE (Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner @ May 26 2005, 12:52 PM)
I got my C&R last year and it did not require fingerprints. Has that changed?

Nope. Fingerprint cards are not required for a C&R FFL. One thing that has changed since the last time I went through the process was that I had to submit a Certificate of Compliance with my renewal.
  • 0

#8 First Sergeant

First Sergeant

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 752 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West Ohio

Posted 26 May 2005 - 06:09 PM

Norm,

Sorry about the misleading info on the fingerprints. I've done several NFA transfers on the C&R, all requiring prints. I knew there others on here that would get it straight. Seems that since I got the license I've been broke like Lionhart. Go figure !!

Chuck
  • 0

#9 DC Chris

DC Chris

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 408 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbia, MD

Posted 26 May 2005 - 06:28 PM

I sent the paperwork off for my C&R on 5/2/05. I received the license on 5/20/05 and the welcome kit (I am a first time C&R) on 5/24/05.

My license is active June 1, 2005 to June 1, 2008. Post Dated. Go figure!

Chris.
  • 0

#10 slowfinger

slowfinger

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 59 posts

Posted 26 May 2005 - 06:54 PM

Guys, Does the C&R transfer when you move to say missouri? I already have one but may move to where the laws are freindlier to people. biggrin.gif Slowfinger
  • 0

#11 Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland
  • Interests:Thompsons, Garands, All things WW2, Corsairs, Classic Guitars, Sex, Guns and Rock & Roll

Posted 26 May 2005 - 07:26 PM

Chris, They just don't want you make any rash decision, gives you some time to look around before you buy. Consider it the 7 day waiting period.
  • 0

#12 JimFromFL

JimFromFL

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1877 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:20 PM

One important point that no one mentioned is the fact you must now log/document all C&R purchases.
Not really a big deal but yet very important. Some people find it a bother and don't get the C&R.
  • 0

#13 Norm

Norm

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2514 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis, TN
  • Interests:Thompsons (of course), Electronics, Physics, History, Mechanics, Collecting License Plates.

Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:54 AM

Thanks for the info everybody. wink.gif

If I obtain a C&R in Tennessee, would it transfer to Missouri without re-applying?

Norm

  • 0

#14 Roland the Thompsongunner

Roland the Thompsongunner

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 187 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:pa
  • Interests:I am into motorcycles both dirt and street. Musclecars, and WWII reenacting and weapons.

Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:54 AM

You only have to log them in your bound book if you use your C&R lic. to obtain it. Roland
  • 0

#15 45fan

45fan

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 53 posts

Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:01 AM

Norm,

A couple of additional points for you to consider.

First, if you buy many C&R NFA weapons and have a corp. entity set up to be transferee, you may wish to get the C&R license in the business name. Now, before someone jumps on me and claims that this creates the appearance of being engaged in the business of dealing in firearms; I must point out that I have a C&R in the name of one of my corp.'s. It is a not engaged in the "business" of buying/selling firearms, and such is abundantly clear. It is actually engaged in agriculture. Not to mention the fact that the ATF approved the application in the business name with no questions asked. Obviously, being licensed in this manner removes some of the hassle of buying C&R NFA firearms, i.e. no fingerprints, no sign-off, no picture required.

Second point and one that often appears to be overlooked in internet discussions involves the bound book you will have to maintain as a licensee. If you get a 03 FFL, you will get a "welcome" kit which includes a bound volume of firearms regulations. In it you will find the various approved formats for bound books with respect to each type of FFL. As far as I know, there is no pre-printed bound book (such as you may have seen for sale in SGN or GunList) that follows the proper format for a C&R licensee. There is a difference between the information required and the manner in which it is recorded between a type 03 and type 01(dealer) FFL's as well as the others. If you will look around on the 'net, you should be able to find sample pages prepared by others that are correct. That is what I did years ago when I first got my C&R, and I've just made copies of it since as needed. Or, you can create your own following the format in the "Green" book of regulations.

I realize that we C&R holders probably aren't very high on the .gov's list of things to be concerned about. So, in all likelihood no one will ever know or care precisely which format you're using to log guns. However, I just wanted to alert you to the fact that there is a difference. You can use that information however you wish.

Also, you should be aware that by law the ATF has 60 days to act on your application for a license. So, if you're still waiting after 60 days, send them a polite email citing the applicable CFR. That should spur them along. I know because I had to do it when I first applied for mine.

Yes, you can file an application to amend FFL (I believe that's what it's called) to change your address once you move to MO without reapplying.

Oh, and . . . . . . . . . Welcome to the club, Cruffler! biggrin.gif

Sam
  • 0

#16 Bill in VA

Bill in VA

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southwest Virginia

Posted 27 May 2005 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Roland the Thompsongunner @ May 27 2005, 05:54 AM)
You only have to log them in your bound book if you use your C&R lic. to obtain it. Roland

Not true. Whether or not you actually use your C&R FFL to acquire a C&R firearm, all C&R firearms either acquired or disposed of while you hold your C&R FFL must be logged.

CFR 178.125(f) deals specifically with C&R FFL holders and in part, "Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. " (emphasis added.) No mention about use/non-use of a C&R FFL, only that C&R A&Ds must be recorded/logged.
18 USC Ch 44 923(g)(2) says basically the same thing: "Each licensed collector shall maintain in a bound volume the nature of which the Secretary may by regulations prescribe, records of receipt, sale, or other disposition of firearms." (emphasis added.) Again, no mention of being exempted by not using your C&R FFL.

  • 0

#17 hughlong

hughlong

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Augusta, GA
  • Interests:lots of stuff...including all kinds of thompsons and accessories

Posted 27 May 2005 - 09:19 PM

I am a Pa resident and have a C&R. If I am traveling in another state, say Va, and see a good deal on a C&R pistol in a gun store there, am I free to buy it directly assuming I have a copy of my C&R liscense with me and take delivery there on the spot?
  • 0

#18 ODS9091

ODS9091

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 248 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ALABAMA

Posted 31 May 2005 - 07:36 AM

Another bonus to having a C&R..places like MidwayUSA, Graf's & Sons, and Brownelss's give you dealer pricing with a C&R.
  • 0

#19 OldFalGuy

OldFalGuy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 700 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas
  • Interests:Sporting Clays, Skeet, Reloading and just plain Living

Posted 31 May 2005 - 12:06 PM

Norm,

If this is true underYour State law-

A non-FFL can only own a C&R machinegun, but "C&R holder" can own any machinegun.

Then this in and of itself will literally save you a fortune on NFA.

Make sure this is so and on your next NON C&R purchase make dog gone sure you either send them a copy of or if possible or proper write your C&R license number on the form 4 under transferree, might ask ATF about that first though-maight make them scratch thier collective heads for 8 months.

M

  • 0