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Removing Broken Extractor


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#21 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 09:29 PM

I'm just wondering how they stay in business with this kind of carnage.... My Gawd were talking ten different catastrophic failures from one person… Including physical injuries to third parties…

But the real question is...... WTH Did it take you ten broken guns before you stopped using it?
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#22 Grey Crow

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 09:44 PM

One possibility as to why the semi extractors might break faster than one would in a FA.
The semi's have much stronger springs, and slam things about a little rougher.

2 of the breaks occurred directly in front of the indexing/retaining oval, and one right behind it. The metal is thicker at these locations, and perhaps more brittle due to hardening the "claw" that pulls the empties from the chamber.

Has anyone ever done a hardness test on Wolf Steel vs. Brass cases?

Just a guess, I tend to really over analyze these things sometimes.
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#23 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 09:53 PM

"Has anyone ever done a hardness test on Wolf Steel vs. Brass cases?"

I ask that exact question on the last round of Wolf Talk, and got takin to task by a certain board member....
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#24 21 smoker

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 09:21 AM

Z3,..to answer some of the questions raised...these firearm failures were not the same each time...this was a learning experience over several years...the lacquer sealant of the .223 ammo would jam the M16 action which fires from a closed bolt...the UZI is a slam fire 9mm that would fire out of battery with Wolf,possibly a lacquer issue...the MAC 10/45 was operator error probably due to my frustration over several squibs encountered that day...the STen was my first NFA and it took some detailed inspection to find the bolt problem and find a solution..again this was a long time learning session that will never stop..maybe the newer ammo will work out...for now I`ll stick with brass and put some of these `posties` together...another great learning experience btw..I feel that brass cased ammo is more consistant when tuning for the initial range test...hth... wink.gif
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#25 Norm

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 01:26 AM

On the subject of Wolf ammo....

I used some yesterday for the first time, and I will never use this stuff in my Thompson!

I was looking at purchasing an M11/9 SMG from a man here in town. I met him at the range and looked at the gun. I inspected the gun first and it looked good; barely used. I talked about a price with him and agreed that if the gun tested ok, I would buy it.

He had two or three magazines full of 9mm copper ball ammo. The first magazine was Winchester ammo and the gun shot fine. He had a 55 round magazine that I wanted to test, also. The ammo looked different in it, and I asked him about it. He said it was Wolf ammo that he usually shoots in his Vector Uzi.

I loaded the magazine, took aim, and pulled the trigger. The gun fired about twenty-five shots before it jammed, making a very loud CLANK noise. I droped the magazine from the gun and checked to make sure the gun was empty. As I was setting the gun down, I noticed that the sight plate had BROKEN OFF OF THE GUN! I was lucky that I wasn't hurt.

Needless to say, the man selling the gun was not too happy. Neither was I; I was ready to buy.

I do know that the wolf ammo cylced so hard, it hurt to shoot it.

After that, I told myself "No Wolf ammo in my Thompson!"

Norm

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#26 Grey Crow

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:14 AM

Using Wolf in the Semi 27A1, caused 3 failures with the extractor. 2 were within 25 to 30 rounds! No savings there.

As to the type of extractors, most likely they were not GI issue, they were obtained from Numrich and Kahr. I looked at some at a show but the guy was asking $19.95 ea. so I passed on them.

I still have a few hundred rounds of Wolf left that I'll put through the Kimber and Colt. They seem to have no problems with it. From there is back to brass 100% and reloading.

Last time at the range I fired 200 rounds of brass without a hitch.
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#27 brian

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 06:19 PM

every extractor i've got from numrich over the years, has had a squared off "S" on it. i thought those were ww2??
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#28 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 08:56 PM

I've heard of the rear plate of M11/9 cracking before (not sure what brands of ammo were used). That would definitely be a bad feeling. Worse would be a cracked bolt or split/ bulged barrel on my 21AC. The M1A1 I could repair/ get repaired without dizziness, nausea, vomiting, cold sweats, sleepless nights, etc, but not the 21. Savage/Stevens extractors are $5 all day long at the Creek.
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#29 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 11:04 PM

evident smevident..... blink.gif What, first they are underpowered squib loads getting stuck in the barrel, now they are overpowered max loads destroying guns... Make up your mind which way you want to go.....
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#30 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:32 AM

Just pointing out that now matter what is posted in a negative way about Wolf ammo, seems to be more evidence to prove your point even if it is completely contary to the past negative points.... dry.gif
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#31 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:17 AM

Personal attack???? I have said nothing personal here.... You may take it personal and that is up to you.... You posted the ????????? ph34r.gif and I explained what I meant... That is personal? Don't ask if you don't want an answer I guess. The whole Wolf thing is a long tedious topic at best..... Go ahead find all the post that I made "personal" attacks on you and not your ideas.... I think the whole bulged barrel thread would be a great one to look at.... BTW The UK Weapons Technical Staff memo backs up and pretty much proves my point on that one..... You'll find it on pg 85 ATII....

Just a bit to add...

"And we don't need your long, insulting, acid arguments about why this is not so and why anybody who disagrees with you is a moron, and with extracted clips from other peoples' previous postings and your embellished analyses to prove whatever irrelevant point you are trying to make about how wrong everybody else is."

Find me one just one "long" insulting argument... This is really funny coming from you the king of word count. Have you ever posted a short post? I really would like you to pull these up and show them to me because honestly I'm in the dark here... Just asking for a little help.
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#32 pvmain

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 12:05 PM


20,000 rounds of brass cased lead bullet reloads thru my
Colt :21A over the last 20 years (using a '28 bolt and extractor from Sarco) with no extractor problems ar any others, for that matter. I suspect that steel cased ammo is the culprit in most cases. Spend a little more and use brass.
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#33 Grey Crow

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 08:30 PM

I've never had any problems with squib loads, or over powdered ones from anyone.
Yet! I hope I don't.

OT: however on the 1911 boards there was some chatter of Win White Box with over charges, possible squib load. To the point where Winchester paid to repair or replace parts on a Kimber 1911 after the barrel blew.

Personally I feel it is just the steel case. Never had any problems with the case coatings, just extractors.
Like I mentioned earlier, it may simply be due to the force that the semi 27 slams home. Lets face it, that is a lot of spring action needed to jump over the edge of the case.

The main spring on the FA are not as heavy, that in my mind would have a slightly reduced energy on closing and impact.

AO (Trast), and Kahr were and are still using extractors that were designed for use in FA firearms.
I guess there are 3 really good answers here:
1) Buy a FA.
2) Use brass cases.
3) Or design a bolt, and pivoting extractor. smile.gif
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