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Info On C Drum By Kahr


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#1 Mario Scarpino

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 09:37 PM

I bought 3 new L drums thru the group buy that P.K. arranged. I sent all 3 back to Kahr for replacement as all 3 fit very poorly in my 27A1 and PVMAIN's 21. Only on one occasion did one of the drums do a full 50 (actually 55) round dump with out any problems. I sent them back thru Dottie Herold at Kahr. After waiting about 2 months and no action I e-mailed (June 6) her and inquired about the status of my replacement drums. She was very apologetic about the long turn around and said they have these sitting on the shelf and should have gone out a long time ago. I received them on June 14 and so far everything looks good. They fit my 27A1 like my Colt drum. The finish looks good. The rotor does rub the feed rails, but I have an easy fix for that (nylon shim). Once I get with PVMAIN and his 21A, I'll know if they fuction properly. PVMAIN's replacement L drum works well.

While asking Dottie about the status of my L drums, I also asked about the status of the C drum. I asked how that project was going and what would be the cost if they did sell C drums. She said that their head engineer was meeting (on June 7) with the only supplier who bid on the project. At this time they only had a "budget price" and it was too early to tell what the selling price would be. She did not come out and say that Kahr would definately sell the C drum.

I think we have members on this board who know who the "only supplier" is. Can anybody add anything to this message? Like who is the "only supplier" and what is the selling price thru Kahr likely to be?

Mario Scarpino
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#2 TommyGunner

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:18 AM

What I am hearing from Frank Harris is that the C drums should be ready for sale by October. He said that they were using the ORIGINAL dies but some of them were worn and had to be replaced. He gave me some initial pricing but swore me to secrecy. They are coming and with Tracie Hill's help and using the original 1920's dies...hopefully they will be up to par.

Damon
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#3 TD.

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 07:28 AM

Great update Damon. Sounds like the high prices for non-functioning West Hurley C Drums are going to become a thing of the past soon. Do you know if Kahr plans on serial numbering the C drums?
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#4 TommyGunner

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 08:00 AM

TD,

Don't know if they are going to serial number them or not. Will try to remeber to ask Frank Harris when I speak to him next. I was very encouraged when I heard that they were using the vintage dies. This is a huge step in the right direction. There is still a bunch of variables that can make or break the job...quality of raw materials. Also some processes will still have some guesswork involved. Heat treating for instance...this was more of an art than a science back in the day. The prints I have seen said "Heat Treat". What hardness and temp is not specified. I hope that they get some good advice (Doug R. comes to mind) or do some testing to determin the proper thickness and rockwell. I will tell you one thing...I do like the sound of the pricing! tongue.gif

Can't wait,
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#5 21 smoker

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 11:17 AM

Well there certainly is a different tone on the C drum manufacturing than there was on the intitial L drum production...not the least of which is Tracie Hills` involvement biggrin.gif ...and we are further down the pike as far as feedback to Kahr and their subcontracter,..they have to be loosing money on all those returns...I feel more optomistic this time around,...hell,..last year at this time we were all deep in the frenzy of whether there would be a sunset!...now there is a C drum on the horizon and it is a risin`!!... wink.gif
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#6 Ron A

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 02:03 PM

Has anyone on this board ever seen the "original dies" or even heard they exist until now?
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#7 PK.

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 02:33 PM

“original dies”….. could be original NAC dies. Sounds more plausible than 80 year old NIB tooling.

In conversation with Kahr I was told that they did not buy the C drum tools when they got everything else Thompson from NAC; perhaps they went back for a second dip.

Richardson is not involved to my knowledge.

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#8 TommyGunner

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:13 PM

I was told that they were using the early dies...not the NAC ones. I have no idea where they came from but will ask.

PK...did not mean to suggest that Doug R. was involved...was just thinking out loud as to who I would have asked. Thanks for pointing that out...I did need to clarify. Actually I do not think that Doug would get involved with Kahr after the L drum flop and the Auto Ordnance name thing. As for the dies...they were not NIB...as I stated before...some were so worn that they had to be replaced. At least they are replacing them and not just using them anyway. They are aware of the problems with the NAC C drums and said that they were staying away from them while producing these.

Phil...I hear you man and agree. The L drums were a flop and was a real letdown to all of us that had our hopes so high and waited so long. There are some differences here...Tracie Hill is helping out and they have the original dies. This is a major step in the right direction. As 21 smoker pointed out....they did get slammed on drum returns. Frank Harris and I have spoke of this and he agreed that the returns were just bogging down the business and that they did not want to get into that situation again. Perhaps we made a difference there!


What I am hearing sounds very good but only time will tell. Hopefully I can see one run before they come out and get a better feel of them. Tracies help plus original dies plus learning a hard lesson when being bogged down with returns... hopefully = good C drums in october.


Damon
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