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Colt 1921 Thompson Pics---value?


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#1 Mongo

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 11:35 AM

Its been a while since I asked this board this question but the owner of this Thompson final got some good pictures of the gun and accessories. I'm helping him sell this gun. what's it worth with the accessories? BTW he only wants to sell it as a complete lot.
Thompson 1921AC pics

Markings for 1921AC Thompson NO 5104

“C” Drum
FRONT SIDE


MAGAZINE TYPE “C”
THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
100 CARTRIDGES CALO .45
WIND TO 15 CLICKS
NO 316

BACK SIDE
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORP
NEW YORK N.Y. U.S.A.
PATENED
JULY 27, 1920 DEC 7, 1920
NO 316

“L” Drum
FRONT SIDE


MAGAZINE TYPE “L”
THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
50 CARTRIDGES CAL 45
WIND TO 11 CLICKS
NO. 1861

FOR US NAVY MODEL 1928
WIND TO 9 CLICKS ONLY

BACK SIDE
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORP
NEW YORK N.Y. U.S.A.
PATENED
JULY 27, 1920 DEC 7, 1920
NO. 2848

20 Round Stick

PATENED AUG 24,1929
AUG 24, 1920 – JAN 11, 1920

3-30 Round Sticks
THE SEYMOUR PRODUCTS CO
SEYMOUR CONN.

The right side of the gun has the following markings;

AUTO-ORDNANCE CORPORATION PATENED
NEW YORK U.S.A MARCH 9, 1915 JULY 27, 1920
MAY 4, 1920 AUGUST 10, 1920
MAY 25, 1920 SEPTEMBER 27, 1920
MAY 25, 1920 OCTOBER 26, 1920

The top of the gun has the THOMPSON bullet logo.

Left Side side of the gun

MODEL OF 1921 THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN
NO 5104 CALIBRE 45 AUTOMATIC COLT CARTRIDGE
MANUFACTURED BY
COLT PATENT FIREARMS MFG .CO
HARTFORD CONN U.S.A.

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#2 colt21a

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:21 PM

case and all the acc. are nothing to speak of.the drum maybe now $5,000.00 thats a wack-job t.g.selling price!!

gun if 90% in todays mixed up world...{i have not seen any pic's and assume all original part's and finish!}around the $25,000.00 range..............now i stepped into it.... and a 21a model. $30,000.00........this is based on current sale's... not my selling or buy figure's...

the last twenty colt's i sold went out fairly cheap....how about a pair of 28 navie's for $16,000.00 in last five year's...

however since youare helping a friend,and not putting any money in your own pocket for it..then whatever he is asking might be fair...

{don't you just love the people who say they are helping out?? with a $5,000.00 fat added in for them self..

anyways we don't have it on this board.

so if my figure of what he is asking is off by a ton of dough.what do i know?? i am sure a few more will chime in with exacting to the minute price.... will they buy it all at that price.doubt it!!

most like to rant it's worth this and that...however have done nothing to ever consider paying that much....

so work out for the buddy the best deal for him... and just maybe he will give you a few buck's in the process for being such a nice guy.........

or better yet.you buy it from him yourself...a worked out fair mutual price...then you turn around and resell it. and whatever profit you make,you won't feel guilty/

since once you pay's..the deal is your's to make out on...just be fair..and enjoy the stuff,it's supposed to be fun. good luck in whatever you end up doing.

take care,ron
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#3 Mongo

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE
gun if 90% in todays mixed up world...{i have not seen any pic's and assume all original part's and finish!}around the $25,000.00 range..............now i stepped into it.... and a 21a model. $30,000.00........this is based on current sale's... not my selling or buy figure's...


Pictures at the link in my original post. The gun is far from 90%
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#4 colt21a

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:59 PM

if it is over 90%{ and original finish}then by all mean's buy it..heck contact recon ord{jerry}he's a big time wheeler dealer and i'm sure will send you the money next day air...

heck i owe him $1,500.00 that i'm mailing off on monday..
so i know he's gonna want to spend it someplace..wink!!

good luck with the sale... and don't ever take any of my post's personal....it's all fun here.

well maybe for the ????

take care,ron

was mongo in blazing saddle's???
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#5 Mongo

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE
if it is over 90%{ and original finish}then by all mean's buy it..heck contact recon ord{jerry}he's a big time wheeler dealer and i'm sure will send you the money next day air...

heck i owe him $1,500.00 that i'm mailing off on monday..
so i know he's gonna want to spend it someplace..wink!!

good luck with the sale... and don't ever take any of my post's personal....it's all fun here.

well maybe for the ????

take care,ron

was mongo in blazing saddle's???


Ooops, I should have been more specific, its far less than 90%. Are the pictures working (they work for me)

I did not take it personal and yes Mongo was in Blazing Saddles
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#6 nobra81

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 03:19 PM

Hey mongo,
I remember you from another board, maybe m-16 or ar-15. Any way the way i see it


1 c drum ==4000
1 l drum ==1000
1 1928ac in 70 to 80 % condition 22,000 to 24,000

This all depends on inspection on the gun.

The repo case and the mags will just go with the gun.
I personally wouldn't be a buyer at these prices, but I already have these.
If it were something i didn't have it might be different.


Steve

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#7 Mongo

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE
1 1928ac in 70 to 80 % condition 22,000 to 24,000


It's a 1921AC not a 1928.
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#8 koldt

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 06:51 PM

Whoever took the photos did an outstanding job. I hate it when someone is trying to sell a $10,000 - $30,000 item and can't take the effort to take some proper pictures.

Oh ya, great looking '21, and stuff as well.
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 08:14 PM

Mongo,
From the pics it is a little difficult to determine overall condition with the light conditions. But with the blue wear on barrel, right side mag well, etc:

1921 Colt TSMG with First Pattern Cutts in 85%-90% depending on in person inspection of interior parts and bluing. $30K
Matching # C Drum $5500
Mismatched # Colt L Drum $2K
Nickel Oiler $150
Double Patent Date Mag $75

Since we have seen some weird prices for WH M1's lately and WWII Savage/AO's are advertised for $25K, $30K for an 85%-90% maybe a bargain. Altogether as a package deal a conservative $35K.

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#10 colt21a

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 05:21 PM

i see it's for sale at a asking price of $38,000.00........

"In the future only the rich will own Thompson's"

probably most of the buying public. have nothing that they own that cost them $38,000.00 for one item...

exclude house you live in.to be protected from the element's. and a better car.or suv or truck for transportation... chime in what ya got!! wink!

take care,ron
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#11 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 05:59 PM

Wow!. If you add up my individual components, I missed the ad price by only $275!

Ron,
Everything (most things) that is/are cool and desirable have not been affordable to the amateur enthusiast for decades. Now NFA items have joined the list. Maybe they joined four or five years ago. Entry level homes in any desirable area (excluding California, Florida, etc) are $250K. A customized 55 Chevy with a 600 HP V8 sold at auction last year for $221,400. Come on!

You dealt (or still deal?) in a commodity that was the next big thing. Instead of trying to hold back the hands of time, you should feel gratified that the passage of time has blossomed your hobby/business into a market driven colossus.

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#12 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Jul 10 2005, 05:59 PM)
Wow!. If you add up my individual components, I missed  the ad price by only $275! 

Ron,
Everything (most things) that is/are cool and desirable have not been affordable to the amateur enthusiast for decades.  Now NFA items have joined the list. Maybe they joined four or five years ago.  Entry level homes in any desirable area (excluding California, Florida, etc) are $250K.  A customized 55 Chevy with a 600 HP V8 sold at auction last year for $221,400.  Come on!

You dealt (or still deal?) in a commodity that was the next big thing. Instead of trying to hold back the hands of time, you should feel gratified that the passage of time has blossomed your hobby/business into a market driven colossus.

Arty sometimes you come up with some gems, and this is one of them.... The only thing that I get tired of on this board, other than the obvious, is the constant price talk. I really think it is time for people to "get over it" and accept it for Gawds sake.
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#13 colt21a

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 09:30 AM

i guess i was just looking for the fat cat's around here to sell them a over priced anything and make some money...so i can live in my million dollar plus dig's..in a van by the river...

wink!!

i guess i have not written many check's lately for one gun for $38,000.00..i was the po-boy buying them back in the 70's fora few grand...however at least i bought them 3 or 4 at a time...

my most expensive piece was a maremont m60 e3{n.i.b.} from fred for $19,000.00 i got it home set it up and said to myself great, it's on a bipod instead of two wheel's.

dumped it a few year's later for about the same price...know why?? at the time nobody really could afford to buy it at the time.year {1992}

however since then the time's have changed...the rich got richer..everybody else don't care...wink!!

i never post this stuff to start blow-out's..just to have fun,and see who really know's what they talk! and i normally get the right answer's..........

have fun with it..don't ever get caught up in the moment.

take care,ron
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#14 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 05:12 PM

I don't own Gordon's book, curious what the known history is on serial number # 5104.

Thanks in advance
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#15 Mongo

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE
I don't own Gordon's book, curious what the known history is on serial number # 5104


From the original paperwork I've seen, it was bought by an individual who registered it in 34 and kept it until he died and the current owner bought it from his widow.
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#16 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 06:40 PM

So much for the theory about how a one or two owner Colt TSMG would more likely be in pristine condition than a Colt TSMG owned by half a dozen or more individuals. Maybe the ones that spent most of their time locked up in a quiet town PD's armory until the 1970's faired better? It is interesting when a Colt TSMG, previously MIA since leaving Auto-Ord, turns up in the market place some 80+ years later. It would be cool to see a copy of that original sales receipt.
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#17 leid

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 06:45 PM

5104 21AC
Purchased by Mr. Cary Bok age 34, Adrmore PA., on April 7, 1939 on Form-1. Mr. Bok was in the Navel(sp) Reserve.
Private collection, Camden Maine 2004
For sale: Sturmgewehr web site 10/26/2004

There is more personal stuff on Mr. Bok.
Carey
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#18 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:26 PM

Even though Auto-Ord did not necessarily sell their 15,000 Colt TSMG's in order of the serial number, it is astonishing that #5104 didn't leave the storage rack until 1939. That would be the last year they were in business.

In GH's addendum supplement he states, "info pending 10/04" on #5104. This is rather frustrating that if you don't have the fourth edition collection of his serial numbers, even with the addendum, your book is obsolete. Would GH pro rate the price of the fourth edition on substitutions of older copies?

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#19 TD.

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 10:19 PM

Arthur,
Interesting observation about how late NO 5104 was sold by Auto-Ordnance. This is certainly noteworthy and needs to be documented. Given the condition, I wonder if this Thompson was some sort of test gun or sales sample that was liquidated prior to the formation of Maguire’s Thompson Automatic Arms Corporation. Perhaps Mr. Bok got a real deal on this TommyGun.

I too wish Gordon would offer some sort of complete update. While I appreciate the free updates, I would gladly pay for new inserts containing all the information in the new edition.

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#20 Ron A

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:06 PM

I also would be interested in buying up to date pages rather than buying a complete new book.

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