Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Nice Drum, But Rust Spots


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 deerslayer

deerslayer

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1684 posts
  • Location:North Iowa

Posted 15 July 2005 - 09:25 PM

Got a drum today, a seymour in excellent probably never loaded condition except for some rust here and there on the outside. No bullet tracks on the inside. What should I do? Bluing is certainly original and a very excellend deep color.

user posted image
I suppose somebody will offer me a brand new kahr drum in trade instead of that old rusty thing... smile.gif

user posted image

Some of the pits are pretty deep looking. I was thinking of taking an eraser to the rust first off and then seeing whats under it for pits etc. Seems like this rust topic might have been talked about a few months back, but I just wanted to share a look at an old drum, spice up a Friday night.
Dan




  • 0

#2 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 16 July 2005 - 02:32 AM

Dan,
I do know that it is wise to at least neutralize the oxidation, so as to stop further deepening
of the pitting. That will keep on etching once it has started, slowing and speeding up with the relative humidity of the envrionment. A mild Oxalic acid (like Naval Jelly) usally does the trick, but I don't know what the reaction to the blueing would be.
But it's sure wonderful to see that original blue. I'd try to keep that as is.

Metal folks, Smiths, any ideas?

Z
  • 0

#3 Sgt

Sgt

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2047 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern TN
  • Interests:Militaria, Chess, Tools, Sherlock Holmes, Printmaking, UFOs, Ghosts, Electronics, Comic Books, Long walks in the rain, with my Savage 1928a1. (just kidding on the last one; it doesn't have to be raining) -- Ralph

Posted 16 July 2005 - 09:29 AM

Be a little careful with Navy jelly and bluing. I tried it once and it made the blue look silvery. I agree with Zamm, figure out how to stablize those spots. I know there are some refinish experts here.
  • 0

#4 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 16 July 2005 - 01:17 PM

Ah, Sgt.
That's the info I wanted to know.
I figured it might affect the blue.
Must be someway to chemically buffer the oxidation...
PK, Damon?
Z
  • 0

#5 wildwilly2002

wildwilly2002

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 80 posts
  • Location:TUCSON ARIZONA

Posted 16 July 2005 - 02:08 PM

steelwool and maybe some light sandpaper for pitted spots. Touch up with some quality cold blue, lightly oil and go shooting!
  • 0

#6 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2402 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 16 July 2005 - 02:44 PM

Dan,

As deep as some of the rusting is on the finish, it's unlikely you'll ever get out the pitting from the rust. It needs to be sanded, polished and reblued, in my opinion. Since Syemour drums weren't bead-blasted, it wouln't look authentic to do that, although bead-blasting would remove the rust and make the pitting less noticeable.

It's a nice drum, unfortunately the rust pitting looks pretty well advanced, especially on the front face plate. Since you probably don't have too much into the drum financially, I think refinishing is the way to go. I'm not so concerned as others about keeping the original finish, as long as the original finish has been somewhat destroyed anyway.
  • 0

#7 TNKen

TNKen

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 374 posts
  • Location:Bristol, TN
  • Interests:Firearms, machine guns, defensive handgun competition, snow skiing and ski patrol, my children

Posted 16 July 2005 - 04:33 PM

Light blasting using baking soda as a medium? Never tried it, but heard it works.

Ken
  • 0

#8 TD.

TD.

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2005 - 06:45 PM

Dan,
I don't think Seymour drums are all that rare (but certainly desirable). Given the condition, I would have it refinished to a finish you like and use it as a shooter. This will stop the deterioration and preserve the drum for many years to come. Great find. I am sure everyone on the board would like to have it.


  • 0

#9 Z3BigDaddy

Z3BigDaddy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:State of Jefferson
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Metal Detecting, Gun Trad'n

Posted 16 July 2005 - 07:01 PM

Steel wool and WD40... No arguments please... And then just keep it oiled.. I wouldn't refinish it..... jmvho
  • 0

#10 deerslayer

deerslayer

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1684 posts
  • Location:North Iowa

Posted 16 July 2005 - 08:22 PM

user posted image

Just used the eraser last night and let it sit with WD 40 and gave it the eraser again tonight. Most of the rust wasn't that deep. Couple spots were quite deep and I haven't got to the bottom of them yet. Might go for some very light steel wool (as per suggested) or something in my dremel tool for the next step.

Thanks for your suggestions, this is a fun project to have people looking at and offering their opinions. Its almost like yall are sitting around the work bench with me. Somebody needs to invent a sandblaster that's the same size as an air brush then a guy could clean out those tiny little spots. smile.gif
  • 0

#11 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 16 July 2005 - 10:49 PM

Dan,
Somebody did allready.
It's called an AEC Air Eraser made by Paasche.
You can pump all kinds of abrassives through it, real fine point.
I've used it on photographic film to Glass depending on the abrassive you use.

http://www.paascheai...s_and_guns.html

Best, Z
  • 0

#12 dalbert

dalbert

    Website Owner

  • Admin
  • 4267 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 16 July 2005 - 10:53 PM

Just my 2 cents, but I would not use steel wool. It will take the blueing off. Use bronze wool.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
  • 0

#13 Z3BigDaddy

Z3BigDaddy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:State of Jefferson
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Metal Detecting, Gun Trad'n

Posted 17 July 2005 - 01:18 AM

QUOTE (dalbert @ Jul 16 2005, 10:53 PM)
Just my 2 cents, but I would not use steel wool. It will take the blueing off. Use bronze wool.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

Fine steel wool will not remove bluing with a one time cleaning in conjunction with WD40. I have used this combo many times with no ill effects. I
  • 0

#14 dalbert

dalbert

    Website Owner

  • Admin
  • 4267 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 17 July 2005 - 05:57 AM

Z3BigDaddy,

I don't doubt that good results have been produced by using steel wool. I have done the same. I have also produced bad results using steel wool. When that happened, I was recommended bronze wool by someone who knew about it. If you use steel wool long enough, it will begin to wear through bluing, especially along edges. Bronze wool is less abrasive, and works wonders on rust. The way I look at it, it's better to try the less abrasive option first, and if it doesn't produce the desired results, then move on to the stronger stuff, like the very fine grades of steel wool. If the steel wool rubs off the bluing on the first try, he's not going to have a chance to go back and use bronze wool, which will probably work fine with less risk of marring the finish around the rusty areas.

When it comes to this type of subject, everyone is going to have an opinion, and different experiences and techniques they have used successfully. My experience is that I've used the steel wool option, and regretted it.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
  • 0

#15 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 17 July 2005 - 08:42 AM

Soak it with clenzoil and let it set for 30 days. You will be amazed.
  • 0

#16 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 17 July 2005 - 04:00 PM

I'd go one step past what you have done so far (removing the rust lightly with an eraser).
I'd degrease it and paint the rusted/bare areas CAREFULLY with a neutrtalizing primer (auto parts store). This primer neutralizes the rust and it's a bit shinier than dull black. If you are careful it shouldn't look too bad. BTW, the bare spots add an original used look to the drum, and since it is pitted, you may just want to leave it oiled and call it a shooter.

Incidentally, I've had really good luck removing rust from various steel items (axeheads, tools, etc.) with oxalic acid (in crystalline form available at a pharmacy for a few bucks a pound) but never tried naval jelly because it's kinda pricey. The crystals can be mixed with warm water (4 heaping tablespoons or so to about a half-gallon) and will dissolve the rust in just a few minutes. You end up with clean bare metal after washing off a thin layer of yellowish slime. THAT BEING SAID, you gotta remember that bluing (as well as black Oxide finishes like DuLite) is a controlled rusting process, so there should be no doubt that anything that removes rust WILL affect the bluing also. sad.gif

BTW, didja get a good deal on it?? wink.gif

john
  • 0

#17 deerslayer

deerslayer

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1684 posts
  • Location:North Iowa

Posted 17 July 2005 - 09:41 PM

John, don't know what I'm gonna pay for this one yet, haven't got a bill, I built some stocks for the guy and he just sent me a drum (I had asked if he had any extra drums around). I'm kind of waiting to see what happens with a far amount of anticipation (maybe a little trepidation too).

I do have an other seymour drum that I had purchased a couple years ago. Very badly rusted outside but stabilized and coated with some unknown stuff. It was probably sandblasted and reparked or something. Inside is like new. Didn't anybody ever use these things in WW2? Probably try to sell the other poorer quality drum when this one gets sorted out. Good to let somebody else have a seymour for their collection.

Guys, thanks for all the suggestions. I think at this point I'm gonna stay with the WD 40 soak for now and order some clenzoil and try that too. IfI can always do the steel/bronze wool dremel tool as time passes if the others don't satisfy.

I'll post some new pics in a month or two.
Dan
  • 0

#18 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 18 July 2005 - 09:27 AM

Deerslayer: Be sure to shake the bottle of Clenzoil. Be sure to let it set. It won't remove all the rust but it will pentrate and a lot will come off. I would not use WD-40. Good luck and let us know.
  • 0