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#1 John Jr

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:09 AM

FOR SALE: Colt Thompson Model of 1921AC



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Expires On: 10/16/2005
Ad Information

Ad Number: 6405

Date Posted: 07/18/2005

Price: $23,500.00

Text of Ad

On Form 3 in Oregon
80% Receiver and Frame Matched SN 1616
Payment in full prior to submission of transfer documents
Tax, Shipping, Insurance responsibility of purchaser
Sorry no photo to post, no digital camera, into guns not cameras or computers. Serious inquiry I'll get you a photo somehow.
Contact Information

Name: Stephen Wozny

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State/Province: Oregon

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Country:

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E-Mail Address: tsmg@adelphia.net

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#2 Lancer

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 09:39 AM

Gordon's book says this was one of Respected Ron's guns in 98.
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#3 TNKen

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 12:33 PM

Made the inquiry, no response as of yet. Savage '28 isn't bad either.

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#4 OldFalGuy

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:02 PM

The way the ad is written one could thing he is describing an 80% receiver as in one only 80% machined vs. what I think he means as 80% condition. Probably worth what he is asking.
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#5 TNKen

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 12:27 PM

Any of you guys get this on the Colt?????

To Whom It May Concern:

I am a licensed manufacturer and acquire Colt SN 1616 from J. Curtis Earl in July 1998.

I placed the advertisement for sale on the Bowers’ Board at 0217 July 18 and in less than 20 hours there was double digit response, including at least two that said and I paraphrase: ‘have money, where do I send it’. I will get to that shortly but first to address questions re condition of Colt SN 1616.

As stated in the ad - “80% Receiver and Frame Matched SN 1616”

I bought this gun to shoot, I have shot it, it is a shooter and, clearly, was handled and shot a lot prior to my acquiring it. There is no sign of abuse. The finish is well worn; there is no rust and no pitting evident. There is no evidence that it was refinished, metal or wood. The vertical fore grip is in very good condition - it is original? I have no way of knowing. It is a very nice piece of wood, sleek, not a plank, consistent with the other Colt 21s I viewed in J. Curtis Earl’s walk-in gun safe when I selected it and another Colt 21 to purchase in 1998. The pistol grip and butt stock in good to very good condition without any markings whatsoever. J. Curtis Earl represented to me Colt SN 1616 as original, and I had no reason to doubt his representation.

Original Colt Thompsons had the serial number applied to the receiver and to the frame, both the receiver and frame of Colt SN 1616 bear the marking No. 1616. I am told that on the early Colt Thompsons, the SN was also on the breech face, I believe, of the barrel. I have not had the barrel removed to check it out. The barrel outer finish wear is consistent with the finish wear on the receiver and frame, thus I assume it is original and the fins have the rounded configuration rather than the square military. The bore is bright and the rifling strong but clearly wore. The internal parts appear bright and neither blued or parked, and since I considered those internal parts, bolt, actuator and buffer to be original, I shot Colt SN 1616 with military replacement parts. I did not shoot any Chicom, Russian or any other odd-ball stuff thru Colt SN 1616. I shot some S&B, Winchester and Remington but mainly my personally reloaded hardball equivalent with Laser Cast 230 RN hard cast lead bullets to ease wear on the barrel. No leading occurred and Colt SN 1616 functioned as expected. I finally settled on CorrosionX lubricate marketed as SpeedX, to lubricate Colt SN 1616 - it functioned flawlessly with that oil. The Cutts Compensator bears the Cutts marking. Colt SN 1616 has the blunt nose bullet logo and the “old style” fire control markings.

Colt SN 1616 is transferable, J. Curtis Earl told me that he had no need to deal in any other kind of NFA firearm. Colt SN 1616 was not DEWAT. Colt appears on the Form 3 as the Manufacturer and that is how it will appear on the appropriate form out.

I expected a response to the offering for sale of a Colt Thompson, that’s one of the reasons I bought Colt in the first place, but, frankly, not the rapid and overwhelming response that I received.

I put Colt SN 1616 on the market for $23,500.00 paid in full prior to any documents of transfer being submitted. If that is not clear, this should be quite clear - When I have in my hands certified funds in the amount of $23,500.00 then Colt SN 1616 belongs to the person who placed that $23,500.00 in my hands and I own the $23,500.00, end of story.

It would be dishonest to allow this sale to become a bidding war, especially with representations from some that they are ready, willing and able to place the $23,500.00 purchase price into my hands upon receipt of directions where to send the money, then who is the lucky one? Therefore, Colt SN 1616 will be sold for $23,500.00 certified and verified fund as set forth below:

Cashiers Check payable to Stephen L. Wozny in the amount of $23,500.00 with a sworn statement of the official of the financial institution that issued the Cashiers Check stating 1) the date, 2) hour and minute of issuing the Cashier Check, 3) the city, state and time zone of the issuing institution, and 4) the hours of operation of the issuing institution on the day of issuance of the cashiers check. Delivery of the Cashiers Check and the sworn statement shall be to Stephen L. Wozny, 10110 NE 149th Street, Brush Prairie, Washington, United States of America. Neither the Cashiers Check nor the sworn statement shall be made before beginning of business on 22 July 2005 and they both shall be delivered no later than 12 Noon on 26 July 2005 at the designated address by whatever means purchaser chooses.

Colt SN 1616 is purchased by the Cashiers Check that is good, verified by my financial institution and which according to the sworn statement accompanying the Cashiers Check was issued the soonest after the beginning of business 22 July 2005 regardless of the time zone. If a tie occurs, it will be broken by the flip of a coin.

As of 12 Noon 26 July 2005, the offered price of $23,500.00 for the purchase of Colt Thompson SN 1616 is withdrawn, stricken and void.

Dated 18 July 2005 at 11:30 PM PDT

Stephen L. Wozny, in propria persona

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#6 John Jr

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 01:02 PM

Now thats some funny shit. Lets see who takes greenbacks to guys house, bet he wins..

laugh.gif
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#7 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 01:06 PM

That is wack! So what would you do with 25 cashier checks for 23K?
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#8 philasteen

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 01:14 PM

I don't care if that was a 100% gun with matching C and L drums, I would not be sending a check under those terms and conditions.
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#9 First Sergeant

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 01:34 PM

I recieved the same email response to my inquiry as well. I've bought NFA from the internet before but never played that game before. I emailed him back asking why not sell it to the the first "I'll take it" and if after 3 days or so if he hasn't seen the money go to the next "I'll take it." Once he gets the cash he can post SPF and won't have to concern himself with notifiying others in writing....first come first serve. Doesn't sound like a game I'm wanting to play either.

Chuck
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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE
The pistol grip and butt stock in good to very good condition without any markings whatsoever. J. Curtis Earl represented to me Colt SN 1616 as original, and I had no reason to doubt his representation.



It appears Stephen put the same thought into the sale of his TSMG as he did when he bought it from Curtis Earl. Maybe if Stephen advertised this shooter Colt TSMG for $28,500 he wouldn't be overwhelmed with offers and, therefore, he could concentrate on the three or four prospective buyers who would have responded.

Here we go again with another head scratch listing in GH's $200 (now $250!) periodical. GH lists Earl as the owner in 1995 and Ron Kovar as the owner in 1998. Yet, Stephen says he bought it in 1998 from Earl. So if Stephen has owned this since 1998, where does Ron K. fit in? What is the rest of the story, Ron? If GH hadn't ironed out all these mistakes until his fourth edition, he should offer credit for an exchange of past editions for his current one. This is really too much.

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#11 Lancer

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Jul 19 2005, 02:39 PM)
If GH hadn't ironed out all these mistakes until his fourth edition, he should offer credit for an exchange of past editions for his current one.

AF,
My edition is the fourth and it lists Ron as the owner in 98.
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#12 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 05:12 PM

Lancer,

I'm sure GH has errors in the fourth edition as well. Unless Stephen, for some unfathomable reason, wanted to credit Earl as the seller instead of Ron, there is reason for concern over GH's scholarship in recording information. But just in the last couple of months there have been several Colt TSMG's for sale whose advertised histories contradict the info in GH's third edition. Dalbert noticed that on one of these serial numbers, GH had changed the apparently erroneous description in the third edition for his fourth edition. There was also no clarification of this in his subsequent updated lists send out to pre fourth edition owners.

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#13 John Jr

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 08:22 PM

Well Ron, wanna chime in here?


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#14 Sgt

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 11:12 PM

Strange terms. I don't feel as guilty now, not responding.
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#15 colt21a

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 01:39 AM

what would really be funny is if the guy got in ten $23,0000 check's..cashed them all and flew the coop for awhile...and transferred the gun to somebody else...then came back and said sorry guy's i needed a real bad vacation...i can give you guy's a refund in about ten year's... let the lawsuits fly...

in fact that doe's sound like a pretty good idea. to get some really quick cash!!

i can just see it now colt 1921a 98% cond.with all goodie's..first $20,000.00 check get's it...and about twenty check's come in...ya know that thompson trust thing!wink!!

funny thing i never sold thompson's that way!!

but what do i know i'm a old hasbeen... i hasbeen there,and i hasbeen here!

have fun guy's hopefully somebody get's it..it sounded fair...and he probably bought it from earl for around $9,000.00..............so even at $23,500.00 he's making out like a fat kat.....if i remember correctly i sold it for $2,500.00 as far back as i can't remember..maybe 1973.....and was way lower then 80% by my standard's...then again the standard' s have risen right???

good luck whomever fall's for the deal of the century...take care,ron
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#16 colt21a

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 01:48 AM

oh and after reading all that diatribe.. in the ad response.my entuisarcasm level is high!!

what have we come to selling class three..are we now buying heart's and liver's to save live's??? it's a freakin gun folk's.......................

one thing i am glad for.i got this far in life,and never resorted to the carny tactic's.

anyway i will post the ad next week for the ((% blue baby colt...get the check's ready..i need a vacation wink!!

have fun boy's have fun.....take care,ron
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#17 TNKen

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 06:59 AM

On the cashier's check thing. Guy here locally came up with a similar scheme. Spread word he had stock options with a guaranteed return in 3 months of 35%. Actually running a ponzi scheme. Collected about 5 million in cashier's checks, paid off the people screaming the loudest, took one check, went to the funeral home, made his arrangements, went out to the car and capped himself with a Glock 10mm. (yeah gun involved). Tons of litigation followed, including the meaning of delivery of a cashier's check. I got involved in the aftermath for some clients.

Lesson here is that once you make out a cashier's check payable to a third party, and make the delivery, the deal is done. You CANNOT stop payment on a cashier's check, the UCC (and now Tennessee law) is very clear on that point. Once the delivery was made, the checks simply went into the man's estate to be divvied up with the rest of the folks that lost funds. You did not get your money back in full.

BE CAREFUL ON THIS ONE if you decide to play the game.

Ken
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#18 Mongo

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE
The Cutts Compensator bears the Cutts marking.


Ok guys, I know hardly didily about Thompsons but I did pick up some information when I helped sell a Colt 1921AC. My questions are as follows:

1. Should the model number of the gun not be 1921AC since it has a Cutts compensator?
2. A friend of mine who is onto Thompsons said that the 21AC I helped sell was correct since the Cutts comp did not have any markings on it and that the Cutts logo and patent numbers were added later in the production run. Does this mean that the Cutts on this gun is from a later model gun?
3. Assuming question 3 is true, my friend told me a story of J Curtis Earl had taken many 1921A guns and added Cutts to them thinking that would increase their value (of course it later turned out the 1921A was rarer due to no Cutts comp on it). Could this gun be one of those?
4. This guy obviously has Internet access, why the seemingly low price for this gun?

Edited by Mongo, 20 July 2005 - 10:42 AM.

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#19 Ron Mills

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 11:45 AM

I seem to recall Curtis Earl offering after-market Cutts to prospective customers, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure about the 21A being more rare than 21AC. There were also 4 or 5 different Cutts during the life span of the Thompsons.
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#20 Hyper Sniper

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 09:09 PM

Guys, I was in the loop and got this unbeliebable line of Garb, this is his response to me.

Sir,
> Thanks you for your response, but I have bought from all ends of this country and never had to jump through so many hoops, as I said I have funds ready to go, but will pass on this kind of control move.
>
> Thanks...Dan




Thank you for telling me that I need not contact you further in this matter. Your use of "this kind of control move" is misplaced. Yes, I have the gun, and yes, I set the price, and yes, I wrote the rules by which the purchaser is determined - but I DO NOT control any move of any potential purchaser. I did not control you and your writing this email to me, you controlled it, you, with your own preconceived notions, prejudices, and biases. In truth of fact, only your actions on the morning of 22 July 2005 will determine whether you are a potential purchaser or not, not I. Enjoy your other three guns. TSMG

Edited by Hyper Sniper, 20 July 2005 - 09:19 PM.

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