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Ot; But You Cannot Forget These Men


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#21 Walter63a

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 07:32 PM

Pathfinder,

No person here, certainly not I, doubts your sincerity or patriotism. However, I think you are making too much of the fact that we broke the Japanese code(s). By the time of this disaster the A-bombs were less than a month from being dropped. Nothing would change that. I think that a destroyer escort could not possibly have hurt the war effort, and it may, indeed, have saved those 1,197 warriors lives, from suffering and death. We will never know if it would have made the difference, because someone, or a group of someones, decided not to tell McVey which route home would be safest and did not think it necessary for a destroyer escort. I wonder, if some of the big wigs who had that knowledge and power had been aboard the U.S.S.Indianapolis, would the decisions made have been the same? I doubt it. In that case, the safest route would have been determined, plotted and followed home, with a destroyer escort. blink.gif Of course, that is my opinion, but think about it. It was a fuck-up (not Commander McVey's), at best, and possibly malice which resulted in those brave men's sufferings and deaths. ph34r.gif Perhaps we will never know the whole truth in our lifetimes. Hopefully, those who made the decisions, above Commander McVey in the chain of command, have (had) consciences. Hopefully there was no malice; but if there was, I hope their consciences ate at them the for rest of their days!!! mad.gif cool.gif

Regards, Walter
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#22 OldFalGuy

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 08:28 PM

Pathfinder,

I hear what your saying about justice and tactical level commanders might well not had Ultra level intelligence- I agree. Your right 2 subs is not an infestation, I was not refferring back and forth tot he article when I wrote the post and that article might not have know exactly what was what either.

I just don't think the code aspect is the best excuse for these guys getting hammered.
Ever wonder why the Indy just didn't take the same egress route how as thier inbound route- did they have an escort inbound- you bet they did or should have. Why no Mayday? Was that mentioned either? No flyby with a PBY??

Mark
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#23 PATHFINDER

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE
I just don't think the code aspect is the best excuse for these guys getting hammered.

No it is not the best, but it is one that is ignored in every account of the event that asks 'Why did this happen'. I am sure there are others. And no, these guys should not have been 'hammered' like this for ANY reason, code or no code.

Well there are things that the Navy could (read as should wink.gif )have done. Any time a ship that large moves you would think they would want it protected.
This is where the government as usual crap comes in: as soon as it was done with the important mission they stoped caring and all the shody SOPs were back in place. You can bet your bottom dollar that was well protected on the way out!

I had an uncle that flew pathfinder missions off Siapan with B-29s. A tight three ship formation flew in, at night, at low altitude and bombed by radar with incendiaries. My uncles plane had the radar the other two ships where there for his protection and to drop their bombs on command only. It was important that his plane (Lucky 'Leven) be protected on the bomb run because out there in the night were 100's of individual B-29's headed to the target to bomb on his aiming stake of fire. Each plane navigated alone to the target, they did not use formation attacks for the low level, night fire raids
As soon as he droped his bombs SOP dictated that the three ship formation break up and individualy make thier way back to Siapan. Why? these were highly skilled pilots and navigators who had just flown over 8 hours in formation and most of that at night. The reason was he only needed that fomation for protection up until the point where he finished his important job, then f**k em', he's on his own. SOP said that B-29s flying at night should not attempt formation flying, but they had just flown IN that way!!
Stupid and crazy. If I can find it I will scan a post a letter here he wrote about one of his wing man being shot down by night fighters immediatle after the formation broke up on raid to strike the aircraft plant at Tachikawa (a suburb of Tokyo). He crashed into Tokyo harbor. My uncle over flew the plane on the way out of the area and saw the crew standing on the wing of the plane. They were all beheaded in the main square in Tokyo the next morning according to the Tokyo newspapers. Had they held formation leaving the target and clearing the coast, these men would probably have survived the war (note the date of the mission).
As a small memorial to these men here is the MIA report.

Mission # 57 to Japan, April 3/4,1945
44-69751 - 500th BG - Z31 - ,MACR 13765 -Crew lost/MIA.
Pilot: AC Maj. Robert Sewell, Jr. (KIA)
Copilot: 2/Lt. Merle S. Eaton (KIA)
Bombardier: 2/LT. Stephen Louis (KIA)
NAVIGATOR 2/LT. IRWIN GENDELMAN (KIA)
FLT. ENG. 2/LT. ISAAC SAMAREL (KIA)
RADIO SGT. MAURICE R. KOMOCAR (KIA)
RING GUN. SGT. AUSBON JUDD (KIA)
R. GUN. S/SGT. THOMAS E. McEVOY (CFC) (KIA)
L. GUN. SGT. WILLIAM C. POOLE (KIA)
RADAR S/SGT. KURT PORJESZ (KIA)
TAIL GUN. SGT. HARRY L. MEARS, JR. (KIA)
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#24 OldFalGuy

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 01:21 PM

Yep, your right-gov't stupid is on a whole other level-

Gotta wonder why tha non formation flying on the return flight RULE was in place at all-

One can sometimes surmise that rules follow accidents be it in the air or on the ground- This is a bit extreme to me-If some guy, grunt or pilot, makes a gross error or does something stupid folks should learn from it but to place a rule in place to prevent stupidity is on par with zero-tolerance laws- they are all in place without any thinking about the unintended conaequences they bring to the table.
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#25 PATHFINDER

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:37 AM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 29 2005, 12:15 AM)
This was not a flimsy wooden PT boat, skippered by some spoiled rich college kid from the East, running around in circles in the dark and bumping into Japanese ships because junior had no idea where he was or what he was doing. That was a different example of incompetence, which was also whitewashed, but for a different purpose.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif LMMFAO
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