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Is This Legal?


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#1 Norm

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:00 PM

All you Class 3 guys look at this and tell me if you think it is legit.....SBR 27A1.

This guy doesn't mention that it is registered as an SBR, and the price is very low if it does happen to have one of the few legit registered conversion firing pins made by Broadhead Armory.

Is a member of this board selling this?

Personally, I'm staying very far away until more info comes out! ohmy.gif

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#2 philasteen

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:15 PM

Long barrel included for those of you who have issues with the ten inch barrel
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#3 kilroyjones

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 07:50 PM

The ad shows a picture of the short barrel installed on the rifle. Wouldn't this fall under the ATF "Once a machinegun always a machine gun" rule?

I know the short barrel doesn't make it a MG, but it does make it a NFA weapon. So I would believe the feds would say it was once a SBR it is always a SBR.

The other problem is the ad shows the barrel mounted so to be legal, the owner had to register it as a SBR. So the rifle would need to be transferred according to NFA. If it was never registered, well then....... I think this is a good one to stay away from. Either someone is iggnorant of the law on making a NFA, or someone is on a fishing trip.

The above post is subject to correction, to hide my own stupidity....KJ
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#4 Norm

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 08:17 PM

kilroyjones,

To the best of my knowledge....once a machinegun, always a machinegun, but an SBR can be removed from the registry. I may be wrong.

The ad says, "Factory short barrel and factory detachable stock."

Here is my question- Is this a factory SBR made by AO of WH, or is it an illegal SBR?

If it was made as an SBR at AO of WH, it is the first one that I have heard of.

Can anyone else shed some light on the possibility of a 27A1 from AO of WH that was registered out of the factory as an SBR? If there was such a beast, it means that there is yet another twig on the Thompson Family Tree of Guns. wink.gif

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#5 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 08:52 PM

$3,000 for a WH 1927A1? You could make your own SBR WH with a Savage barrel and real Cutts and including the requisite $200 ATF fee still be in it under $1,000.

If WH ever sold this as a factory SBR they kept it on the QT since they started making their replicas in 1975. Does this seller have the brain matter to require the buyer to pony up the $200 ATF fee or is he is paying for the registration out of the sucker's $3K-$4k?

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#6 deerslayer

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:16 AM

Remember the "blowitup" guy, he was always listing and relisting a semi west hurly with occasionally one or two drums for thousands of dollars. This must be the same guy or his brother.
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#7 Norm

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 11:08 AM

deerslayer,

If you notice in the pictures, this guy has (what appears to be) one of your display stands. Any chance that you remember him?

user posted image

"blowitup" did ask some high prices for his guns, but they were not SBRs.

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#8 Norm

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 12:03 PM

PhilO,

The guy says this in the auction....

"Forget about those new Kahr made tommys. Their price resembles their reliablity. CHEAP!"

I can only assume that he is saying that this is not a Kahr made weapon.

Also, in this photo (below) the receiver has AO of WH stamped on it.

user posted image

Norm

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#9 DC Chris

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 03:28 PM

Just a dumb thought...

Did any one email him and just ask if the SBR has paper?

Chris.

Edit - Thanks Lancer. And just for the record - no, I'm not interested in that over-valued gun with that cheese grater on the top. Hopefully he won't say - "I don't know what the NFA or a form 1, 3 or 4 are." smile.gif
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#10 Lancer

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE (DC Chris @ Aug 21 2005, 04:28 PM)
Just a dumb thought...

Did any one email him and just ask if the SBR has paper?

Chris.

I was curious about what his line would be on this and e-mailed him this morning, haven't heard back yet.
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#11 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 06:10 PM

The bidder on this WH "Tiger-1" also purchased the following off Gunbroker only a couple of months ago for $2,250!!!

"Description for Item # 32638618

This is another Item from my personal collection. Up for auction is a Excellent Condition 100%. West Hurley Thompson 1927A-1 Deluxe with a rarely seen removable stock like the 1928 SMG. The Bolt has a beautiful knurled finish as well as the rear site. The rear of the receiver on both side has a Colt Pony stamped into it. Looks unfired but must list it as a used gun because I wasn't the original owner. The Rifle has a 4 digit serial number. The Drum is a West Hurley 50 Round Pre-Ban Drun that is Brand New as well as the 30 Round Stick mag. Either the Drum or Mag was ever inserted into a firearm or had ammo loaded into them. The Violine Case is in Like New Condition with the exception of the oil stains seen on the foam insert. I will get some better pictures as soon as I can. This Rifle would be a great addition to any collection. I hate to let her go but some things are unavoidable. Good luck and happy bidding. Due to local advertising I must Reserve the right to close this auction early if this item is purchased locally. "

Apparently Tiger-1 is a push over for hyperbole in advertising such as the "rare" 1927A-1 buttstock screw on conversion plate. Are there no limits to bad taste, chicanery and now dubious ATF registration problems with these unscrupulous sellers and benighted buyers?

I won't even comment on the sacrilege of stamping the Colt pony on a WH

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#12 Lancer

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE (Lancer @ Aug 21 2005, 05:35 PM)
QUOTE (DC Chris @ Aug 21 2005, 04:28 PM)
Just a dumb thought...

Did any one email him and just ask if the SBR has paper?

Chris.

I was curious about what his line would be on this and e-mailed him this morning, haven't heard back yet.

When I sent this guy the e-mail. I played dumb to try and get a response out of him.

Here is the email I sent him.

"Hi,
Your ad states "factory short barrel". Is this a WW 2 barrel or post war
West Hurley made barrel? I live in Ohio, is the short barrel legal here? Do
I need to register it here?"


His response.

"This is a post war gun, barrel included. Made around 1990. I have three short barrels and I have never had a problem registation. I couldnt tell you if its 100% legal or not. Frankly I couldnt care less. They just dont look right with the short barrel. Ive taken mine out ranges and shoots and no one has ever said anything to me about it so I guess they are legal.
Thanks,
Jimmy"

Can you beleive this guy? blink.gif


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#13 deerslayer

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:30 AM

Norm, I noticed the display stand, funny where those things turn up. I don't remember selling one to him by his gunbroker name. I sold a few on the auction boards but looked at his feedback and didn't see any comments from me.
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#14 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:57 AM

Not to hijack this fine thread, but are these stands being sold currently?
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#15 full auto 45

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:58 AM

Sounds like the guy at the TCA show asking for someone to make him a receiver so he can make a TSMG. He lived in Chicago and when he asked me I told him he couldn't do it unless class II and couldn't own it in Illinois anyway. He said he didn't care if it was legal or not, he wanted one. I told him to go somewhere else.
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#16 deerslayer

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:07 AM

Z3, I'd be happy to make you one of those stands. Email me.
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#17 NotDeaf

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 03:03 PM


Sorry to bring up an old post, but, my dad seen all of this guy's guns, including this one in question, at a gun show, at the Cuyahoga County Fairs Grounds show, he had a table there. So, I'm hoping that in the next week or so, there's going to another gun show at the Medina County Fair Grounds, I'm hoping that he'll be there, I'll ask him a few questions, becuase I'm still waiting on my paper work from the ATF for my SBR, it's only been 90 days and it's killing me.
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