50 replies to this topic

[kilroyjones]

If a conman were to run such an ad, wouldn't it be best to advise the management of the gunboard? I do believe that the firearm community should be self-policing to help our public image.

I don't believe that going out of ones way to inform on another gun owner is productive. Yes it may only be "Oleg" in Russia, but what of his customers? The fact that the goverment has only confiscated the parts doesn't matter, they could just as easily arrest the gun owner if they choose. Ignorance of the law is no defense, so even if the gun owner didn't know better he could still be charged.

The effort put forth to "educate" the gov agencies on illegal parts, would better serve the firearms community if the effort were used to educate gun owners. The more gun owners in the US know of the law, the better suited they will be to act in changing the law. What happens after the gov stops the flow of parts? They say thanks and then leave the gun owners of the US alone from now on or they look for another area to attack the 2nd admend? Just the .02 cents of an ignorant country boy.....

[Bob]

Ron ya got it all wrong.

The snitches and informants we use begin as criminals, the carrot being freedom and a few bucks cause they can't sell blood for the next hit of Meth.

What we have here is a crusader. Randal is someone who will save us from ourselves any way possible. Do we need it, I guess if we are to live as lemmings.



The Tin foil Hat Club Link

[philasteen]

I'm really disgusted by the paternalistic hall monitor attitude of the narc set that's posted in support of reporting these violators. I hope Karma issues to you what you so richly deserve.

[M/W]

How do we know that anything was sent to the US? This is the World Wide Web. It is very posible that not a single law was broken. We assume alot.

[John Jr]

Did anybody get a drum yet?

[First Sergeant]

John Jr.

Haven't heard of anyone who has; at least not in this post. Certainly not me, I live in Ohio.

Chuck

[Sgt]

Even if I did, I'd be afraid to admit it on this post. LOL

[moparnascar]

I havent gotten my drums yet. I live in oklahoma. Sorry Hardrede, I think your intentions are good, but you are going the wrong way to solve it.


Bill

[deerslayer]

Ah, back to the drums, sorry to have started such a unpleaseant post, but I have noticed a few "new in the grease" seymour and bridgport drums listed on auctions in the last week. Somebody must have received some.
Dan

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

I see Numrich is still offering their WH 50 round drums stamped for Law Enforcement and Export Only for 275.00. I picked one of these up before the Kahr drums came out, but have to admit I've never shot it. It seems on an equal par with my original WH drum from the 80's Anybody have any experience with these?

[skoda]

I ordered some drums in the 'second wave' at Sportsman Guide (thanks to an observant fellow poster on this site). I also ordered some other items which were also back ordered. One of those items came the other day and on the shipper was a note that my Thompson drums were due to ship on Oct 28. I know it doesn't mean much until they are in hand but at least SG is still claiming that they will ship them to me.

[john]

I ordered three on the second wave and haven't received them yet but I did receive a postcard that they are backordered until the end of Oct/beginning of Nov.

I called customer service over at SG about something I had to return from another order and asked about the drums. As far as the guy knew, they were still inbound and were genuine brand-new-never-issued new-in-the-cosmoline US surplus drums. I asked if maybe they were from Russia and he said he had no idea.

For all anyone knows, they may have been found in a warehouse here in the US and the guide has negotiated some kind of deal.....

Only they know for sure. Personally, I'll just assume that this whole deal is on the up-and-up and I'll continue to wait. If they send drums.
If it turns out that all are confiscated before they can be sent out to us then we won't be charged for them. I also hope that if they are in fact illegally imported that the BATFE doesn't come knocking at my door a year from now demanding the drums (like they have done in the past with various parts kits that weren't properly demilled!)

I wish us all luck.

john

[Sgt]

It sure seems odd to me that an established company would risk their business just to turn an illegal deal. Additonally, I would think that any company that sells bad stuff should be forced to give refunds to customers with confiscated merchandise. Could someone tell me why this would not be the case?

[TNKen]

Sure, when you sell an article of personal property, it is presumed under the Uniform Commercial Code that you have good marketable title to do so. Otherwise you owe the refund.

Now, can the tide get turned when the purchaser has reason to believe that the title may be defective? Possibly so.

For example, you get a deal on a virgin sheep. You question whether there are in reality any virgin sheep left in the world, and also, wonder if it is really a virgin sheep, why the price is so low. But the deal is too good to pass up. Turns out, the sheep (although a virgin) is stolen. The rightful owner can reclaim the sheep, take her from you, and pay you nothing. Your only recourse is with the seller (the thief), who has fled the country back to Nigeria. Because the deal was too good to be true and from a thief, you are not a BFP (bona fide purchaser in good faith) under the UCC. One who purchases from a thief never gets any better title than his predecessor...... none.

In this case, I think it would be presumed that the price was decent for the offering, and that a court would find that there was reason to believe that title was good. SG should owe you a refund (unlike the sheep's owner).

Ken

Edited by TNKen, 26 September 2005 - 11:04 PM.

[philasteen]

TNKen, is it not the case that the question of a BPFV is not relevant to the stolen goods situation? Even if I buy a hot TV set in a retail store at a retail price, if it's stolen, the rightful owner can reclaim it and I am SOL if the owner of the store flees to Nigeria.

[TNKen]

Actually you are correct to a degree. BFP's typically apply to cases where the buyer has actual or constructive notice of a defect in title.

In Tennessee (and I haven't checked other states) however, the status of a BFP also applies in a situation where there is "larceny by trick" which is somewhat akin to theft. For example, Joe represents to you that he is in a position to restore your Thompson '27, and you voluntarily surrender the Thompson to Joe for the restoration. All along, Joe plans on selling your Thompson for cash, and as soon as it is in his hands, he sells it. Assuming the buyer was an innocent BFP, the buyer gets clear title to the Thompson. The issue is a voluntary surrender of the goods by you; you voluntarily gave Joe possession. You will call Joe a thief, which he really is. Under the UCC in Tennessee, this is "larceny by trick." I personally don't see it as any different than an outright theft, but the law unfortunately does.

Check out the provisions of 2-403 of the UCC.

I gave my '63 Corvette to a guy for restoration, and he sold some of the parts I had. He's dead now with an insolvent estate, but I can't go back against the people that got the parts because I voluntarily gave him the car to restore.

Had a stolen banjo case a few years ago that was located after 20 years. We filed suit against the holder to recover the banjo, who purchased it at a yard sale, and ultimately prevailed under the stolen property theory.

Ken

[philasteen]

The term "larceny by trick" is new to me but I agree with your concept and cite to 2-403.

A person entrusted with a voidable title to a good has power to create good title by transfering to a BFPV. The classic example is the watch repair shop where you leave your Rolex that then sells it. There is no way to get the Rolex back from the BFPV as 2-403 created good title upon the sale by the repair shop. (the irony being that 2-403 "upgrades" the title passed by the repair shop from voidable to good).

However, a thief in possession of stolen good, i.e., a void title, has no power to pass title to a BFPV even if a merchant engaged in the trade of selling those items.

[end of thread hijack]

[bt3_guns]

They just sent me an email with an adjusted delivery date of 12-30-05.

Bill Troy

[full auto 45]

Just got my notice of the 12-30 date. Oh well, that's fine.

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

Got one as well. I think I got in on the second go round.