10 replies to this topic

[Lancer]

In light of the current threads discussing hardrede's controversial activities involving reporting suspicious activity to Federal agencies, I thought a poll might be interesting.

For some reason the actual question I asked did not post, here it is.

Do you endorse reporting suspicious transactions (involving gun parts) to Federal agencies?

Edited by Lancer, 19 September 2005 - 06:09 PM.

[Bill in VA]

OK, at the risk of being caught up in this firestorm, I'll go out on a limb and side with Randall for the time being. Should the feds do their own legwork? What if your little girl was kidnapped? And what if I saw the kidnapper, and saw him doing some unspeakablely horrific crime on your kidnapped daughter? Should I call the FBI? Or should I just say "screw it, let the feds find her"? And if you say, "but that's different...someone is being physically hurt" then what if my neighbor is growing dope? Or brewing his own whiskey? Nobody's getting hurt then. Should I still report him?

I'm not saying I'd call the alphabet boys each and everytime I suspect something may not be kosher, but I am saying let's put this in perspective. (And I may not turn them in...it would depend on a number of factors.) But what's wrong with a little self-policing? Sometimes it can be actually be a good thing. Self-regulation can sometimes help minimize the risk of outside regulation.

Furthermore, how is what Randall said any different than half of the guys on this board crying out about "OMG! I saw an illegal SBR at the gun show today/there's a guy on gunbroker selling an illegal SBR/autosear/fill-in-the-blank. Why, that could get gunshows shut down forever! We gotta do something!!!"? So what if he feels the need to do so? The government isn't asking, or worse, making us turn in others. If Randall does decide to call Customs, then he is doing what he feels is his legal and moral obligation. And he certainly has the right to do so. Lancer, this isn't directed at you, or anyone else specifically. But I've watched this board for a long time, I've seen Randall flamed repeatedly when he mentions something like ITAR fees, and I've seen a little of a holier=than-thou attitude rear its ugly head here from time to time on other similar issues. If we don't agree with someone else's opinions, statements, or even TMSG prices we don't have to go out and target someone, particularly not someone who's a member of this board anf of our community.

Randall, I may not always agree with what you say or do (or the rest of say on this board, for that matter) but as long what's being done is within the confines of legality, I'll defend to death your right to do so.

My .02 (and in my Nomex undies.)

[21 smoker]

Bill,..you brought up some good points to consider,however I find it is awfully hard to keep an open mind when it appears everything is said(printed) as if he is shouting...I dismiss many of Randal`s posts because of the manner in which they are delivered...perhaps in person his words would carry more substance..imo...self- policing is always better than the alternative...no matter how unfair we know these importation laws are,the law is the law...I wish there was a roadmap to effect a change in alot of the NFA restictions..maybe someday...

[Mike Hammer]

Good lord how things can get twisted. We were not discussing kidnapping or any thing of the like, or selling full auto machine guns. How can anyone bring such flagrent comparisons into the mix is beyond comprehension. We were addressing ONLY the fact of some people intent on notifying government on the sale of some drums when they know nothing about the background of the whereabouts or origination of said drums. Geez, get a grip!

M.H.

[TNKen]

Technically, under federal law, it is a crime to fail to report a violation of a federal law that is a felony. It is call misimprisonment of a felony. A fellow I know was the first person ever convicted under this law. It was alleged that he had information about a stolen tractor and trailer load of Jack Daniels whiskey and failed to report this information to the feds. Netted him a couple of years and a felony.

Don't ever forget, the state and federal authorities can indict a monkey if they so choose. It doesn't take much to get criminal charges levied at you.

Not to hijack the thread. But it certainly would be nice to have clarification on these types of issues. BUT have you ever noticed that if you ask ATF, the ruling is ALWAYS against ownership.

Ken

[TSMGguy]

When something that I want comes onto the market here in the US, with a US seller, I don't hesitate. I place my order, pay for it with my VISA card, and happily anticipate the arrival of the brown truck. All very above board. I don't ask about the guy's import paperwork, or the lack thereof. That's his business.

Maybe I have all of this entirely too well rationalized, but here it is: It was made in the US. Possession, of and by itself, is not unlawful. Advertisements and deliveries were made in interstate commerce. I'm sure that there is plenty of trouble to be gotten into by the unscrupulous, but that isn't me.

We all buy all kinds of imported goods, and we don't worry much about the federal paperwork. I bought a Walther P99, clearly marked "made in Germany". Is it here illegally? I hope not, but I bought it on a form 8710, and my conscious is clear.

As always, I'm with PhilOhio on this one. In a police state, are we all to be police? The answer to that one is "yes"; that's how a police state works.

[Z3BigDaddy]

".......I will continue to advocate for legal ownership of NFA (because the NRA does not) and make my voice heard in the change of Admin Law to help the legal importation of OUR weapons and parts. My MPA in Public Administration has really helped in the endeavour. "

Really? I guess the fact that NRA legal recently helped NRA members in four states retain their classIII weapons after the DOD deemed them guverment property doesn't count? If it weren't for the NRA you would be using you guns as hoes to weed your flower bed.....
I'm assuming you're just an NRA basher and not a member since you don't even contribute to the board....

[philasteen]

Hardrede, you should have gone to the U of M law school like I did instead of the public administration school. It's better preparation for the real world.

Maybe you should practice law for a while and then recontemplate the consequences of your actions on those you are affecting. That might help you see the error of your ways.

[Mike Hammer]

PhilOhio, once again you prove to be a scholar and a gentleman, something I can't always claim myself. I try, but I find myself becoming less tolerant as I get older and my life shorter. Your last post in this thread, mutch more elloquently spoken than mine, has expressed my feeling exactly about this subject, which I'm laying to rest for now.

TSMGguy, I concur with your logical take on the buying of parts from U.S. sellers. I should not have to go the farthest ends to find a complete paper trail on the origins of how relic drums or parts became available to U.S. consumers. nuff said

Mike Hammer

[moparnascar]

I think that you should rephrase your text and start a different poll.

Bill

[kyle]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Sep 21 2005, 11:16 PM)

I wonder if some of the more pessimistic founding fathers, with lots of bitter experience in the good old British days, were able to foresee the possibility of this sort of subversion of their intent. Or was this why they added the Second Amendment as a very thoughtful afterthought?

Oh come on PhilOhio. We all know by now that the second amendment is really meaningless. It's only purpose is to separate the first and third amendments.