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Kahr Arms Imported Before '86?


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#1 jim

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 08:45 PM

I am looking to buy a Pre-sample WWII AOC 1928 from an L.E. agency and the paperwork shows that Kahr Arms of New York imported it back in the 1970's. Does anyone know the history of the Kahr Arms that imported machine guns back then?
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#2 Grey Crow

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 08:55 PM

I can't say if Kahr ever imported any Thompsons that far back, but I guess it might be possible.

On February 1st 1999 Auto-Ordnance was sold to Kahr Arms.
Prior to Kahr's involvement it was owned by Ira Trast, and prior to Trast it was Numrich Arms.

Numrich sold FA's and did a lot of piece mealing of parts to make FA Tommy's. NACXXXXX was used for serial numbers, for arms placed through Numrich.
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#3 jim

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:06 PM

I think you may be right. The gun was in the posession of one L.E. agency and was registered to another. It seems they traded the thompson quite a few years back and didn't bother to legally transfer the gun. The department that has posession wanted to have it registered in their name before they transferred it to me. I didn't help them with the form 5 and I'll bet they decided since Kahr Arms makes "Thompsons" now, they must have been involved in the importation of this gun back then.
I am suprised that the NFA branch didn't kick the form back for not having the original importer name on the form though.
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#4 jim

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 09:49 PM

The NFA people can be very anal about the description. Kent Lomont once told me he had a form 3 kicked back because the original recorded length was 72" and he put 6'(it was a Lahti 20mm).
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#5 jim

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 10:20 PM

I think the clerks just sort the forms and put them on the appropriate examiners' desks.
Whenever I make a mistake on my form 5's or form 3's(EXTREMELY RARE) it's my examiner that kicks the forms back and puts one of those form letters that have all the things you could do wrong listed with little boxes next to them (I.E. Signature required, Missing Date, Law letter required).
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#6 TSMGguy

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE (jim @ Sep 26 2005, 09:06 PM)
I am suprised that the NFA branch didn't kick the form back for not having the original importer name on the form though.

I'll bet that the manufacturer on your form 4 is still listed as A.O.C. Bridgeport, unless the paperwork had to be completely reconstituted.

Some NAC guns were sold to law enforcement agencies, but most went right onto the US civilian market, and there was no seperate purchasing channel.

My own NAC suffixed M1928A1 went to a sporting goods store in Tennesee in the mid '50s, where it stayed in stock for many years. In 1965 it was sold to the owner previous to me (for $595), who kindly sold it to me in 1995. It's a beautiful matching gun with all of its original dulite finish, bright bolt, all milled parts, plain pivot, safety and actuator, and a non - crossbolt stock. It has no import marks. I've seen others like it, and still others that I believe were built up from parts, or imported, refinished, and what have you. George Numrich sold whatever he could get his hands on, thank goodness!

My form 4 never mentions Numrich, and instead lists only A.O.C., Bridgeport, Conn.

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#7 TD.

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 09:28 PM

George Numrich did sell whatever he could get his hands on. That is one of many reasons why his company is in business today. When you have a warehouse full of Thompson parts, when assembled, bring less than $595.00 a gun you are not too concerned about collectability or originality – you are concerned with making your payroll. However, George Numrich did recognize the historical significance of his purchase from former Auto-Ordnance Executive Fredrick Willis in October 1951 when prototype Thompsons were found in the crates of the former Auto-Ordnance Division of Maguire Industries. It is my understanding that these prototypes now proudly reside at the West Point Museum because of the generosity of George Numrich. In addition, many people now have a great shooter Thompson - and those with an historical interest in the Thompson Submachine Gun have a place to go to study the past. We should all be so lucky to have such a great legacy.
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#8 jim

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (TSMGguy @ Sep 30 2005, 08:36 PM)
I'll bet that the manufacturer on your form 4 is still listed as A.O.C. Bridgeport, unless the paperwork had to be completely reconstituted

This gun has never been on a form 4, it's in a L.E. department on a form 5.
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