Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:41 PM
i was very lucky to inherit some full auto weapons, and I am trying to learn about them and give them the best care I can. I have been reading the board for a while and even went through the entire archived board. Needless to say I am learning alot, but still have a ways to go. Any information any one can provide is much appreciated.
Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:06 PM
Nice pictures of your gun. I agree with your earlier post, it does look like it has been parkerized.
By the way, the grip frame is not original to the gun. The receiver is a Savage made gun indicated by the S prefix on the serial number. The grip frame is an Auto Ordnance made frame indicated by the words Full Auto appearing on one line. This is characteristic of Auto Ordnance made guns. Check the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame under the buttstock and it shoud be prefaced with an AO- then the serial number.
The gun was probably rebuilt at some point and a different grip frame installed. This is common on WWII guns.
Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:14 PM
Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:25 PM
so what's that mean - the george gollof of auto oridnance proof on savage receiver and AO prefix on grip but with same number as on receiver...
i really appreciate the comments, there is another thompson in the group, but the transfer is in progress. It'll be a awhile...
Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:45 PM
Maybe Frank Iannamico has a theory on this one. I agree with Mike, it is obviously was a British gun, i.e. British proof marks, sling swivel relocated to the top of the buttstock, etc.
At any rate it is a nice gun. Do you have any idea when the gun may have been refinished? It don't know if the British would have parkerized the gun. My guess is it was done when the gun was imported back into this country.
Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:06 PM
Posted 17 October 2003 - 07:45 AM
Posted 17 October 2003 - 08:02 AM
Posted 17 October 2003 - 11:04 AM
Posted 17 October 2003 - 11:12 AM
hawksnest - there is NO "tommy gun" stamp on the receiver.
Posted 17 October 2003 - 11:38 AM
|I notice that the "N" marking near the GEG acceptance mark occupies the spot where the Ordnance "bomb" is usually located.Could this be the British nitro-proofed mark, factory applied|
The British stamp I am familiar with is a small 'BNP' , inside an oval too i think- at work, can't look at my rifles. British Nitro-Proofed.
Oh how i wish it were mine...but that would constitute uncontrolled debt for me...
Posted 17 October 2003 - 01:21 PM
The markings on the right front of the receiver are indeed the British proofs indicating the inspector (X1) and that it was inspected at Enfield (the sideways E). It appears that the N mark on the left side is partial (not stamped straight on). It could indeed be a British Nitro Proof, as they had several variations of that proof mark.
Based on your serial number and the list of guns shipped (from Frank's book American Thunder), it appears that yours was probably made during March 1941 before Lend-Lease took effect. That is consistent with the markings on your gun.
I can only hazard a guess on the semi-matching trigger frame. It does appear that the original numbers were ground off and replaced. It is possible that this was done at the factory or by someone that did not recognize the difference between S- and A.O. serial numbers. This is all conjecture. You many never know the true answer.
Judging from the uniformity of the finish combined with its pedigree, there is certainly a possibility that this gun has been refinished, though I cannot be certain without direct inspection. There also seems to be an absence of the U.S. rebuild markings, which would imply that if it was refinished, it was not part of a U.S. arsenal rebuild.
All in all, you have a beautiful early WWII Thompson that obviously spent time in British servide. Everything is consistent with that history. Enjoy your good fortune to own this very nice piece of history! Take good care of it.
Posted 17 October 2003 - 05:16 PM
For the answer to the “N” question, go to page 67 of American Thunder and discover the W-Crown proof from the Netherlands. Your gun was simply not stamped straight (not uncommon) and the W looks like an N.
As for the numbers on the frame: All of those that I have seen were deeply embossed and their removal would be obvious for the amount of material that would have to be disturbed. It is difficult to be sure from the photo but I don’t see the depression that would be left from such removal of a previous number. Two seconds with the part would tell.
I would not refinish this gun. The fact that the barrel is blue and the rest Parkerized is not troubling in the least.
Nice gun indeed.
Posted 20 October 2003 - 04:38 PM
What gives, why all the rudeness via email and now this comment and no explanation. Everyone here has been nice and full of helpful info, Ltcboy what do I have to do to get you to lay off. Anything less then scanning the ATF papers and posting them.
Why would I post to this discussion group, who takes such care in doing everything legally and with the best intentions, some sort of improperly possessed thompson.
Everyone else has been no nice and helpful, thanks everyone else...
Posted 21 October 2003 - 06:21 AM
Don't worry about it. Most of the members on this board realize that the gun you have has a British pedigree. Most 1928 models (not 1928A1) were part of the British contracts prior to Lend-Lease. The later Lend-Lease guns were stamped 1928A1. You have an early receiver that was obviously part of a British contract, hence the British proof markings.
The A.O. grip frame was obviously put on the gun much later since Auto-Ordnance didn't get their own facility operating until late in 1941. Your gun may have been rebuilt by British armorers or ot may have been done (and parkerized) when it returned to this country. The ATF Form from your relative should indicate when the gun was last registered and might give a clue as to when it was reimported or maybe registered during the 1968 amnesty?
A gun from a former Soviet Union territory mormally wouldn't have British proof marks and would likely be a Lend-Lease gun marked as a 1928A1.
Posted 21 October 2003 - 07:43 AM
Where does the Netherlands connection (as witnessed by the Crown-W proof) come in to the picture?
Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:08 AM
Michael, does the address on the other side of the receiver have the Auto-Ordnance New York, N.Y. address? It probably should since the gun is marked as a 1928 Model.
Posted 21 October 2003 - 09:27 PM
Posted 21 October 2003 - 10:25 PM
yes the gun does have the Auto-Ordnance New York, N.Y. address
where can I order Frank Iannamico's book "American Thunder", i think I saw on this web site that it is sold out. Is this the case, are more coming?