Ceiner 22 Kit In A M1a1
Posted 16 October 2005 - 06:45 AM
ANY WAY.......RANGE REPORT.. The kit installed flawlessly in my Savage M1A1 in about 5 minutes. Squirted a few drops of Rem Oil on the bolt. I used the Remington Golden Bullet (bulk box from Wal Mart) that they recommend. My kids and I ran aprox 300 rounds just about as fast as I could stuff the only magazine we had. We had one stoppage. The round chambered but failed to fire. I dropped the mag recocked the bolt and it fired in the second attempt. stuck the mag back in andwent back to work on the pop cans.....I know 300 rounds is not a valid test but it was getting dark and we had hot dogs to roast....The kids LOVED IT.. I wont let them shoot 45s yet. We have neighbors over the berm.....
So MY OPINION (not that you asked for it) I'm pleased at this point. I know more testing is required but somebody has to do it. So far so good....
Oh yeah, R Lee was there on Friday. Shook his hand and got his autograph. He is one cool dude.....
Posted 16 October 2005 - 09:20 AM
Posted 16 October 2005 - 10:15 AM
Posted 16 October 2005 - 12:23 PM
TSMGguy, FWIW, I dont know about the West Hurley deal. But Mr.Woods asked me what I had and seemed pleased when I told him my gun was a military M1A1. I guess you could try one and if it didn't work maybe you could add some military internals??? They are plentiful right now and not too pricey.Just my .02 .
Posted 16 October 2005 - 04:04 PM
Posted 16 October 2005 - 06:02 PM
Posted 16 October 2005 - 06:20 PM
It is my understanding, not personal knowledge, that the WH M1's may have magwell and ramping regions that do not have the dimensional characteristics of the WWII M1/M1A1 Thompsons for which JAC designed his adapter. Thus the JAC adapter may not provide proper fit and feeding.
That is not to say that the JAC kit will not fit a particular WH M1. It may or it may not.
Others may have other opinions or knowledge.
Posted 18 October 2005 - 12:15 PM
ou mentioned you had run a JAC in your WH 28 but what was the outcome? We all know they are not warranted to operate in the WH -I think its because of the possible variety in tolerances in the receivers themselves ergo as somelese stated just replacing WH parts with military parts will not correct the problem. Gotta figure there must be some sort of compatibility problem or JAC wouldn't have the WH's excluded and miss all the business- ITs the main reason I haven't taken the plunge- I wonder what Mr. Woods would say if he was reading this thread.
I was there and obviously missed the table or would have asked him more than a few questions.
Posted 18 October 2005 - 06:38 PM
Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:16 AM
I'm planning on being there but I might have to drag the heavy coat out of storage. I'll bring the conversion unit and maybe the '28 postie too.
Ciener told me the biggest problem with Westies and his conversions are the chambers. He told me that the westie chambers are inconsistant in size with most done to handgun spec and therefore too small for the insert. The feedramp problem is non existant really because the mags are almost in contact with the back of the insert barrel and the rounds never touch the feedramp. I imagine that if the receiver lengths are out of spec though it could cause some problems, it would have to be a big difference in my opinion....
I like the conversion and have fired quite a few rounds through it now. The biggest problem I can see is the aluminum bolt with no hard wear surface for the sear. Most subgunners know that if you don't hold the trigger down tight the sear will drag on the bolt. It happens with all open bolt subbies and will wear hard steel bolts so the aluminum can disappear quick. Phil points this out in his posts too. Many of us are aware of the cause and make sure the trigger is either down or released. New folks don't always know this and are often too excited to pay attention. I think the bolts should have had an insert just for this reason....if and when mine gets worn I'll make up an insert.
Phil also points out that the conversion runs very fast. I thought it was pretty sedate but I shoot a lot of .22 MG's and most run at lightspeed. The thompson conversion is pretty slow compared to a PPS 50 or American 180 and the Norrell 10/22 is a ripper too. I can pull off singles and doubles with the conversion which I can't with the others so I felt it was slow enough. I think this one is a judgement call on the part of the owner.
As for reliability, .22's biggest problem is ammo. If you find the right ammo the thing will be reliable. Speaking with Val Cooper at E&L was a very useful bit of time spent. He works on the American 180's and has done much research on .22 ammo. He says that Winchester wildcat and super x are to be avoided at all costs. The charges are inconsistant and priming is hit or miss. If you fire a downloaded round followed by a hot one you can bulge the barrel. Sometimes they are hot enough to blow the case head off and the next round jams into the remaining piece of the case and fires long before its chambered. Lots of shrapnel.
Remingtons have some loading problems too but mostly they are downloaded.
He recommends the cheap federal from walmart or CCI minimags. I tried the federal and they work well in both the American 180 and the Ciener conversion. They also work well in all the other .22 MG's I have.
Jonathan says the remington is best for the conversion so thats probably a good place to start.....
Post is long enough now sorry for the rambling. See some of you sunday.
Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:01 AM
Frank: I plan on being there on Sunday too. I had planned on bringing my M1A1 this time unless your conversion is for the 28 only. If so, I can bring my 28AC instead if you need a non WH to try it in.
Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:16 AM
looking forward to seeing you. I'll bring the whole kit though I was planning on just setting up the M1 at the shop....not a big deal either way. My kit is for both the 28 and the M1 and you are welcome to try it in either your 28 or M1A1( or both ) . Its nice to touch and feel these things as it clarifies what all the posts are talking about.
you are dead nuts on about the lack of QC not only in ammo manufacture but pretty much the whole attitude of the country. When I have UPS people yelling at me because they can't deliver a package properly something is wrong. When you call a dealer ( of any type ) to order something, they send the wrong stuff and expect you to pay the shipping to correct it something is really wrong. The worst thing is that they either don't care at all or they think screwing the people that pay their wages is ok....
end of rant. Come shoot with us on sunday and we can do some more ranting, and shooting.