46 replies to this topic

[gunrunner]

After much debate I am selling my WH and keeping my C&R Savage 28.

For Sale: Thompson U.S. Model 1928, West Hurley, Serial number 2534A, gun is in very good to excellent condition. It comes with a Kahr "L" Drum that has been to Merel for proper tuning and it runs great. The FBI case is a Greg Williams (not Greg Fox) reproduction and is of excellent quality, I was told that these were made in the mid 80's, this one belonged to LJ Warren. The FBI case comes in a custom heavy cardboard box to protect it from damage during transportation and has Velcro straps to keep it closed. The XX mags, three are Auto Ordnance and one is W.P.S. all are in great shape. You also get a 1928 complete parts kit with knurled actuator, chrome bolt act this is a nice parts kit. One brass cleaning rod. I will pay the first transfer and all shipping to you and your dealer. I have plenty of other pictures of the case, drum, mags , parts kit. This gun is on a form 4 in KY. $16.3K. When I receive payment, I will send everything to you except the receiver. Thanks Greg. 606-845-0098 home, 606-845-0098 cell 606-876-5551 work.

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[gunrunner]

Ok, How much to high am I???

Please be honest, but nice, I can take it.

Thanks gunrunner

[Lancer]

If I were you, I'd sell off the parts set, Kahr drum and FBI case. Get what you can for these. I think you'll get some interest if you get the price down in the 13K to 14.5k range.
The more you ask, the more patient you need to be.
My .02

[RonO]

I paid $9500 a month ago,for a new condition, unmolested West Hurley 1928, that didn't run. So , I bought a Coles Dist. 1928A1 parts kit and if you allow $1500 for PK to go through it I'll have around 12K in it. I would be interested in purchasing the case! !

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

RonO,

I think your post is a bucket of cold water in the face of the momentary frenzy of WH high prices over the last several months. I think this started when a poster said he got $17K for his C&R WH M1. That seemed to signal a let the good times roll feeling for WH owners. But when WH's had a hard time getting $16K, $15K, or $14K they withdrew back to their true $11K-$!3K level.

[45wheelgun]

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Oct 26 2005, 12:54 PM)

RonO, I think your post is a bucket of cold water in the face of the momentary frenzy of WH high prices over the last several months. I think this started when a poster said he got $17K for his C&R WH M1. That seemed to signal a let the good times roll feeling for WH owners. But when WH's had a hard time getting $16K, $15K, or $14K they withdrew back to their true $11K-$!3K level.

Ya whatever. I sold a WH '28 w/accessories for 15k Last week. Took three days to sell.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE

Ya whatever. I sold a WH '28 w/accessories for 15k Last week. Took three days to sell.

45wheelgun

Considering the number of WH's languishing on the internet boards for that type of money, you must have offered $2K worth of L drums, mags, and whatever else constitutes accessories to snag that buyer, or you found yourself a total lay down.

[John Thedford]

What is your gun worth? I just sold a NIB WH for slighly less than 16K. Funds have been received and item shipped. Purchased a 28WH at KC and sold it via one phone call within minutes for slightly less than 15k. Sale did not include any drums or mags. I am having to replace a weapon (and then sue a moron in Tx) that I paid and never received a 28 WH gun from. I tried to purchase a of 28WH to replace this weapon and the ones I attempted to purchase were priced at 15k--and SOLD when I attempted to try and negotiate a deal. Bottom line is this: Thompsons are very popular machineguns and will always be in high demand. Can you get 15k for your weapon? I would bet yes.

John Thedford
NFA SALES

[SecondAmend]

Mr. Thetford,

Welcome to the Board and thank you for the current pricing information.

I hope you find this Forum interesting and informative as well as occasionally entagled in controversy.

While factual statements are always enjoyed, there's nothing so entertaining as passionate opinons, especially those cloaked as fact.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

John,
If you bought a WH1928 and then turned it around for just under $15K, you surely purchased it for somewhere around $11K-$13K. So how can you say that WH"s are really worth $15K? A dealer is not going to pay $15K for a WH.

If RonO can find WH's for way under $15K and you can too, then those who pay the $15K figure are paying for the dealer's mark up. Autoweapons.com has a WH1928 for $16,900. It has been there for a year. But at least they are now referring to the WH's as replica Thompson's.

There are probably more WH's in private party hands, read not dealers, then Cot/Savage/AO TSMG"S. This is the result of private parties buying them directly from WH from 1975 to 1986. Since condition is not a priority when it comes to the shooter WH's, the prices do not fluctuate for any valid reason from WH to WH.

If the high prices of Colt/Savage/AO TSMG's have made the WH a more attractive alternative, the relative high prices of a WH will turn once interested buyers back to the Colt-Savage/AO or a different mg/smg altogether.

[gunrunner]

Thank you, for everyone's comments

The gun and accessories sold for the asking price of 16.3K

Depending on how you look at it, the gun brought around 14.5K.

thanks gunrunner

[45wheelgun]

I knew it would....just goes to show I sold mine to cheap. At least I know it is going to a good home. Congrats on your transaction.

[John Thedford]

Congrats on the sale of your weapon. As I said in my post--I felt confident you would receive asking or very near asking prices. So much for the naysayers:) I guess some of these guys that think they know it all--dont:) LOL:)

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

John,

Any buyer who lays down for a dealer's $15K+ price tage for what is essentially a WH full auto sear does indeed mystify me. For a couple grand more than $16.3K one could buy a WWII Savage/AO M1/M1A1.

I don't blame those who sell these WH's for whatever they can get, but at these prices one could buy an original Grease Gun, M-16, H&K etc.

If you believe these prices to be average, how will you find WH's for under $16K to resell to some mark for $18K?

I know that your 10 emails to me requesting information on TSMG's were not about WH's. But the fact that your confidence in sellers realizing high prices for their WH's is perhaps proved with these recent reports of sales, the WH as a replica TSMG has not changed.

[John Thedford]

Arthur: Whether you wish to acknowledge it the forces of supply and demand in the marketplace dictate prices. I have no idea if you have even been in the NFA business. If so--and you regarded your customers as "marks"--I would believe they eventually discovered your inner attitude and took their business elsewhere. My customers are not "marks"--they are my friends, my customers, and I take their business seriously. There are plently of dealers and for customers that choose to do business with me I am greatfull. I currently have five inbound WH Thompsons--and a list of buyers waiting to be offered these weapons. I am sure if they could easily afford a Colt--they would prefer that. Do I see 20k WH guns in the future? I do not know. However--I recall seeing 8k HK sears--and thinking "NO WAY"! Have you ever seen someone so sure of themselves that they call someone else a liar--only have to eat those words? Read other posts in this thread where someone alluded I was posting BS concerning realized prices. I guess they wish to call the original poster full of BS as well? You or they should feel free to continue your posts. Some of the posts are more entertaining than the comics.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (John Thedford @ Oct 28 2005, 05:51 PM)

Arthur: Whether you wish to acknowledge it the forces of supply and demand in the marketplace dictate prices. I have no idea if you have even been in the NFA business. If so--and you regarded your customers as "marks"--I would believe they eventually discovered your inner attitude and took their business elsewhere. My customers are not "marks"--they are my friends, my customers, and I take their business seriously. There are plently of dealers and for customers that choose to do business with me I am greatfull. I currently have five inbound WH Thompsons--and a list of buyers waiting to be offered these weapons. I am sure if they could easily afford a Colt--they would prefer that. Do I see 20k WH guns in the future? I do not know. However--I recall seeing 8k HK sears--and thinking "NO WAY"!  Have you ever seen someone so sure of themselves that they call someone else a liar--only have to eat those words? Read other posts in this thread where someone alluded I was posting BS concerning realized prices. I guess they wish to call the original poster full of BS as well?  You or they should feel free to continue your posts. Some of the posts are more entertaining than the comics.

Come on John. I don't know how long you have been an NFA dealer, but I do know your knowledge on TSMG"s was soft only one year ago.

But as far as the "forces of supply and demand" go, if you have 5 inbound WH's, that surely indicates to me that you have an abundant supply from sources willing to sell way below $15K.

Do you mark up the resale of these WH"S for more than a grand for your "friends?" Why not just tell them who your contact is and they can buy it from them with you doing the transfer for a friendly fee?

Do you suppose that RonO bought his WH from a source like the one(s) from your inbound source(s)? He avoided the middleman and saved $5K.

Autoweapons.com advertises their WH TSMG's for $16,900 as replicas. Do you inform your customers that what they are about to spend their coin on is a replica?

Do you charge a $200 processing fee like BRMCII.

Where are the Ron Kovar dealers today?

[John Thedford]

Arthur--the more you write the more clueless you appear. You may have a knowledge of Thompson--but you certainly lack any real knowledge of dealing in NFA. Send me $10,000 and I will reveal the warehouse where I buy all these gun at huge savings.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

John,

I am more than ready to be enlightened. If it would not breech any code of ethics for an NFA dealer, could you elaborate on the following questions that you dismissed in my previous post as the hallucinations of a clueless observer of the NFA business.

1) Where do you come by these WH's whose owners do not want to sell for the going rate?

2) How much profit do you put on top of your cost per weapon as represented in a percentage or a straight fee?

3) Do you charge a processing fee?

4) Do you ever just provide a transfer where you are not dealing from stock and what would you charge for that service?

I'm sure any information provided would be of value to many board members who are not involved in the day to day workings of an NFA dealer.

[John Thedford]

Arthur--you certainly deserve credit for giving many of us a good laugh:) I suggest you pose all of these questions to every NFA dealer you encounter for an accurate assessment of the NFA business. I am sure some will give you a straight answer if they can quit laughing long enough!
In the interest of "enlightening" some board members I shall address your questions:
Question 1>Where does a dealer come by Thompsons owners who do not wish to sell at the going rate? Answer: sometimes sellers are more motivated than other sellers. Turn enough stones--and you find a diamond. Many owners would not be willing to sell even at current market rates.
Question 2>How much profit do you put on top as represented as a percentage or straight fee? Answer: It varies on a deal to deal basis.
Question 3>Do I charge a processing fee? Answer: No--I never have. Should I?
Question 4>Do I ever provide a transfer srvice and what is the charge for that service. Answer: Yes--I provide transfer services. The charge varies from $50 on up.
Arthur--the fact is you make it sound like dealers have some secret resource for ordering or buying NFA weapons at below market prices. Were that the case it would be a much easier business. Why are there dozens of ads in Shotgun News and Gunlist advertising "we buy machineguns"? Some educated readers might suggest the law of supply and demand. This little law of economics might go over others heads:) Study this well known law and you might arrive at a reasonable conclusion as to the current prices of WH Thompsons! In closing for the night I must tell you thanks for the laugh Arthur--this has been VERY entertaining:) BTW--if you find some "overpriced" 28 Hurley guns at 12k--toss them my way and I will pay you a finders fee.

[TD.]

John said it all with the three words, "supply and demand." There is no telling how high the prices will go in the future...or how fast. John, I assume you are in business to make money - if not, you have one expensive hobby. I completely understand how someone who bought a West Hurley Thompson (or any Class III firearm) years ago can sell to you hassle free and make a huge profit and not worry about leaving some money on the table. Now I would not do it because I enjoy the deal - but many (most?) people are not that way. One thing is for sure, if the 1986 ban is not set aside, the prices will continue to rise. Of course, if the law is changed West Hurley's could drop to 2K overnight. If imports were allowed, the WWII Thompsons could be in the 3K range. This would also affect the price of Colt's. How much would be interesting to see. Just food for thought.

For all you new board members - Arthur's comment of West Hurley Thompson's being "replica" Thompsons is just that, his opinion. Many on the board do not have any trouble following the history of Auto-Ordnance from Cleveland, Ohio to West Hurley, New York. Arthur takes great pains to share his opinion of West Hurley Thompson as often as possible. Perhaps, he may even believe what he posts by now. While Arthur is very knowledgeable and you can certainly learn from his posts, always remember to separate his opinions from fact.