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Close Call For Brian (pca16)


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#21 PK.

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 09:30 AM

This is a tragic turn of events for you Brian and I truly hope your recovery is quick and complete. You were greatly blessed; it was much to close to be anything else.

I hope you will indulge me; I have no desire to hijack this thread, but I do have intimate knowledge concerning some widely held misconceptions espoused in earlier posts here about the 1911 style pistols that I feel compelled to share. I will do so in very abbreviated form.

In the late 70’s, a large central California sheriff’s office authorized it’s members to carry the 1911 style off duty. Within a year, there had been two offices shot with their own guns, one in the butt, the other across the thigh above the knee. Both survived without lasting disablement, but concerns were raised and the company for whom I worked was contracted to investigate the incidents.

In both cases the guns were loaded with the hammer down (authorized departmental procedure at the time). The butt injury involved the gun fireing while in the waist band of the user, the knee injury gun was being retrieved from the vehicle seat.

The short story: It was determined that the guns had discharged because the hammers had temporally been snagged and released, being drawn back not quite far enough for the half cock notch to engage. A jacket in one instance, the seat belt in the other.

Much skepticism was aired concerning these findings so a demonstration was arranged and attended by brass and field officers alike. In preparation, I removed the lip from the half cock notch of a 1911 hammer that normally prevents the trigger from releasing the hammer while in the half cock position, creating an effective sear notch where the half cock would have been. This position was very representative of the position the hammer could be drawn to and yet not engage the half cock of an unmodified part.

Pistols previously inspected to insure the inertial fireing pin system would not allow contact of fireing pin and primer while the hammer was fully lowered were fitted with the modified hammer, and loaded.

The hammer was then carefully lowered to the new, low sear position and the trigger pulled. In every attempt, the guns discharged.

The bottom line: The 1911 style pistol without a fireing pin block can only be carried safely in two conditions- chamber empty or loaded, cocked and locked (assuming all systems are OK).

Respectfully submitted

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#22 AZDoug

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 03:57 PM

Three years ago at the Flagstaff area MG shoot, Iden Greenberg shot himself in the calf when a tent line or guy line or whatever you call it snaged the hammer of his hammer down, but chambered 1911 as he was ducking under the guy line.

Doug
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#23 SecondAmend

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 07:49 PM

I've noticed that some girls put out after two beers while others keep their knees together after downing half a fifth of whiskey.

This leads me to not generalize.

I also carry the WWII version 1911A1 with the chamber empty until I'm at the firing line.
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#24 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (SecondAmend @ Nov 1 2005, 07:49 PM)
I've noticed that some girls put out after two beers while others keep their knees together after downing half a fifth of whiskey.

This leads me to not generalize.

I also carry the WWII version 1911A1 with the chamber empty until I'm at the firing line.

OK Give it up... where do you find those two beer girls? ph34r.gif


Just get well Brian, we need you here to control this thread mutation...... dry.gif
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#25 pca16

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 09:58 PM

Still recovering more each day. Taking less and less pain killers, still having difficulty sleeping at night. Difficult to get comfortable. I lost the tip of my left lung 5%. They say I will never notice it. Still have residual blood in the left lung that will asorb over time. Got the stitches out from the bullet removal. Muscles sore around the chest tube cut on my side. I get a "catch" when I take a deep breath. But over all just glad to be here.Thanks Brian
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#26 full auto 45

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 10:08 PM

Just don't try to sneeze. I know how bad it is with cracked ribs, I could just imagine with a tube. Dude, take care and see you at the next TCA show, ok.
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#27 giantpanda4

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 08:07 AM

Good luck with the recovery. Don't rush it!

And now we know why I carry a Cobra - with the hammer on an empty chamber.

I wish you well!
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#28 PK.

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 09:30 AM

I will not belabor this but will make the following comments to Phil;

In spite of your placating words, you have accused honorable officers of lying to cover their imagined inadequacies.

In spite of my statement that the information I would provide was in “very abbreviated form” you insinuate that the investigation, work and science behind it was somehow lacking.

These are large claims for someone who has no knowledge of the instance other than what I had briefly provided, and I will say these insinuations are offensive to me, as they would also be to the many others who were involved.

I was only one minor player is a comprehensive scientific investigation that included much more detail than I have shared, the conclusions of which were incontrovertible. I will not even try to compare that to your efforts of the afternoon which are rife with assumptions.

I unaware of any manufacturer of these guns (without FP block) who will recommend the hammer down/ loaded carry.

I know what we did and I witnessed the results. I stand by them without reservation and feel no further need to defend them here.

Brian, sorry this got so out of hand, keep a happy heart.


PS try loaded ammo; it offers more resistance to the FP blow than a primed case.

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#29 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 10:59 AM

Welcome to my world....
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#30 Bisley45

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 02:34 PM

PhilOhio

You might want to check your 1911 series, the Colt series 80's had the firing pin block added, the series seventies was hard slide and then switched to the large garish roll mark. No different internaly form the WWII verion. I prefre the OLD pre WWII Swartz system it functioned off the grip safety where as the series 80's system works off the trigger. Makes it a "pain " to get a decent crisp trigger pull.

BB

Glad to hear your doing better Brian, sorry if I'm nitpicking slightly off topic.
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#31 Bisley45

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 07:57 PM

Yes, that also crept in there somewhere, the dispicable spring bushing with four fingers that was suposted to accurize, it did but wore down fast and the POS fingers kept breaking. Always threw them away and replaced with a solid bushing, wish I had one (intact) for show.

BB
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#32 Greg

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 09:09 PM

Brian, get well soon and I'll say a prayer of thanks for ya. I'd keep the bullet and make a key chain or pendant as a conversation piece. Accidents happen, but I carry a GLOCK.
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