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Curtis Collection> Value's ?sure What!


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#1 colt21a

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 01:05 AM

i have been seeing lately the name mentioned on a few gun's for sale..from the j.curtis collection...are we all to think because he graced us with a catalog..or said he never had a dewat,that it should bring a better premium?? are we to pay 25% more because it was once in his possession...

frick doe's it make my stuff a 50% premium..because stuff i owned was in better shape and never worked on or dewatted...don't think so!!

the gun is what sell's not the previous class three owner..

i love the formerly owned: by j.j.dickson,from jerkwater u.s.a. and came from the earl collection..

historic stuff yep people pay a premium..but because a person was a class three dealer for fifty year's..

or he touched it or glaced at it.no way. or because right time right place because nobody else was interested in buying the gun's at the time. so he did. and now the 200% mark-up

GIVE ME THE FREAKIN BREAK!!

everybody get down to earth..place a fair amount on the item's and be honest..make a little and do another sale..


for sale: 1921ac thompson...former owner's six class three dealer's..fondled,shot,touched up.many new part's,nasty wood.one dealer bragged.the best tommy he has ever seen.....$49,758.00 with kahr drum. gordon kit,numrich travel bag..rare, rare,may include a 30rd. correct magazine,patent dated 1939 nickeled finish..yeah baby..maybe silver finish!!

buyer must supply 40 ft truck to pick-up.or make shipment payment arrangement's.wink!!

posted on net.sold in five minute's.

well thats the story of the week...now i have to dig up those old fred rexer catalog's..money ,money, money,

i miss the catalog's in the mail.....

everybody have a charged up weekend..

stay safe.ron
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#2 Ron Mills

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 01:49 AM

Priceless commentary, O Respected One. Yes, Mr. Earl was certainly full off.....lots of inventory. I loved your description of the 1921AC Thompson with all the accessories. Hey, maybe Winston Churchill held it in that picture, only after Eliot Ness had it, since it was previously confiscated from the Barker gang!!! Truth is, that's how the selling is getting to be far too often.

I'm not familiar with Fred Rexer. What kinda catalog did he put out???
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#3 Billy F

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:11 AM

Hey Dude don't screw up my plans. I purchased a few of those Broadhead pin things and when my plastic sergury is done I am going to sell them as "Once belonging to Pretty Boy Floyd". How much do you think I should mark them up?

Later,
Billy Floyd wink.gif
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#4 colt21a

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:32 AM

fred was out of texas,and a former class three dealer,movie star, {red dawn tank commander}yep!and biker, and overall nice guy!

back in the day he had a m.g.catalog...even way before i had mine out in 1980....now a coveted collector's item. since out of 1,000 printed,maybe only a few exist??

do i smell the pungent odor of T.G. in the air?

everybody enjoyed catalog's..sear's !!{toy section}

in the coming year's i expect the madness to slow down,as the young get old,the older plain retire...and the real old to pass. and the rest to finally buy what they want or need. and the demand will be gone.

sometime's you get what you wish for in life.just hope it was a good wish!

i have a 1928 grip that winston churchhill's bulldog sat on.wink!! big buck's.take care,ron
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#5 colt21a

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE (Billy F @ Nov 4 2005, 07:11 AM)
Hey Dude don't screw up my plans. I purchased a few of those Broadhead pin things and when my plastic sergury is done I am going to sell them as "Once belonging to Pretty Boy Floyd". How much do you think I should mark them up?

Later,
Billy Floyd wink.gif

billy f. as a new member here,i'm glad you see the humor or find some in my post's...glad you joined the fray...

we have no secret handshake's or code's or dress or uniform's..tho some here might feel well in black s.s. dress! wink!

it's a good group of fun and info for tommyowner's and non-owner's..alike...

and on the question of the item's you want to sell..be fair.. and later in life somebody might remember you.

and say he was a good man."apocalypse now"

take care,ron
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#6 Bill in VA

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:19 AM

Well crap! I don't have a sense of humor. I'd love to find one (a sense of humor, that is), but only if it came from JC Earl's collection.
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#7 aut-ord-co

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:01 PM

Ron,

Fred L. Rexer, Jr. Now there’s a name from the past. I remember sending off for a couple of his catalogs. The earliest one that I have (Guide No.2) has a straw color cover with plastic spiral binding and “landscape” orientation. 30 pages. Cost was $2.50. The price list is dated December 1, 1974. Typical prices:
1921 Thompson, NRA Exc. - $2200. 1928A1 Thompson, NRA Exc. - $1000.

The other catalog (Guide No.3) has a red cover and is staple bound with “portrait” orientation. 55 pages. No price list.
Cost was $4.00.

The full name of these is: MACHINE GUNS, Silencers and Counterinsurgency Weapons, Catalog & Reference Guide No. 2, etc.

The pictures were line drawings of all the different weapons with somewhat lengthy descriptions about them but not about a specific serial number.

Ron, you have ignited another Thompson collectible from the past and I tried to fan the flame just a little.

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#8 Ron Mills

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:23 PM

You guys are cracking me up on this one. In 1973 I was considering an MP40 from Roger Cox, all matching, "very good to excellent", $400 was the price. Curtis Earl wanted I think $700 or $800 for one. But his probably shot over the Alps (fired by Hermann Goering) and blew out 3 tires on Patton's jeep...or something. Thanx for the info on Fred Rexer. Interesting. There was a guy in Palmyra, Nebraska (R & R Guns) years ago that had a good inventory and reasonable prices. I don't know if they're still around or not.

Keep it coming, I'm sure there are more stories.......

Other Ron
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#9 colt21a

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:20 PM

i ended up with one of roger's mp-40's in 1975 for $500.00 #349F, then sold it later to a bill cartledge in ohio....he complained that it was a refinish to me at the time...i said send it back to me for a refund..he said NEVERMIND! i can't find another at that price right now..


however nothing beat's the deal to pete kokalis around 1976 or so.he bought a mp-40 from me all matched but less then 80% finish for around $800.00 or so...said he wanted a refund. the gun was not worth that to him..

refund gladly sent. bet today wishes he kept that boat anchor! wink!


the m.g.c.replica mp-40 at that time was selling for $49.95

wow i wish i could buy a real deal today for just ten time's over the cost of the mp-40 replica price today!
how time's have changed.

and people emotion's on these thing's..take care,ron
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#10 First Sergeant

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:13 PM

Ron,

I bought my first 1928 Thompson (West Hurley) from Bill for the whopping sum of $539 in 1978. Didn't know the differance between WH's and the original's but recall telling him I wanted a new one and not a used one !! Opps. Also remember being somewhat disapointed since it looked a lot like the WH 1927 I had bought the year earlier.

Times have changed

Chuck
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#11 colt21a

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 12:20 AM

yes how many guy's back then wanted a new thompson,and not a colt because some had wear and rust on them..and they figured why pay $2,000.00 plus,when they can get new in box for $4500.00 or less...

i cry when i remember my 1975 shotgun new's ad for m1 thompson's for $500.00 to $750.00 each, and a colt original 1927 semi in nice shape for less then $3,000.00

and that was way before almost everybody had none in stock or for sale.{ earl had one }

and a 1918 winchester minty new b.a.r. {shade's of sand pebble's} mcqueen used a marlin rockwell in the movie.

for the pricey sum of $800.00

"what the hell happened"

yep good time's...

take care,ron
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#12 21 smoker

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 09:23 AM

You guys are kinda rough on ole`J.Curtis....that gold leaf on the `Midas`just got little more tarnished.... laugh.gif
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#13 October1971

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 09:28 AM

You guys are making me feel SOOooooo old.....!
I still have a Rexer catalog put away somewhere. And I still have the Sionics .223 suppressor that came from Fred. When he advertised these units I called him for one. At that time there was a new TV program called "SWAT." It was nothing like the current, more realistic programs, but at the time it aired there were very few SWAT teams in the U.S.

Well I distinctly remember calling Rexer to order the Sionics suppressor and his comment at the time was: "Yeah...I get a couple of orders for these Sionics units every week right after the SWAT program airs on tv." Well guess what, they never showed ANY suppressor on that SWAT tv program! So Rexer was using "innovative marketing" at the time.

I had heard he became a consultant to some of the Viet Nam movies being made at the time.
Often wondered where he is now?

And as to J. Curtis Earl, some of us joked at the time that he never really owned any MGs but was making a fortune off of selling his $5.00 catalogs! Sort of like the guy that used to advertise in SGNEWS for the $5.00 packet on how to get M1 Garands from the govt for next to nothing! I bet he made thousands of dollars doing that for years and years. What he did was take the FREE literature from DCM Program and SELL it to people for $5. (The old name for the current CMP, Civilian Marksmanship Program was DCM, Director of Civilian Marksmanship. )

In 1962, I was sitting in Forestry Firetower in Troy, Montana, as a fire lookout summer job, reading my American Rifleman Magazine about the DCM releasing M1 carbines for $20. !!! I was a life member of NRA at the time, and made my wife an annual member (for $5...!!!!) and we each bought an M1 carbine.

When I returned to college in Chapel Hill in the Fall, I ordered from the DCM a sealed "spam can" of 600 rounds of carbine ammo for........ 4 cents per round, or $24 for the whole 600 rounds!

Okay, now I'm feeling REALLY OLD 'cause my dad ordered the M1911 Govt .45 from the DCM for $17.50 and the 03A3 .30-06 rifle for $14.00.
Oh, and while I was in that fire tower in Montana, I met a local shooter/hunter/gun person named Jackson Brown who said years ealrier, his dad ordered Krag Rifles and .45-70 Trapdoor Springfields thru the DCM for........................................ $2.50 each !!! And I thought the carbines/1911/03A3 stuff was the first time the DCM had every released govt guns.

As to the value of guns owned by J. Curtis Earl, and other famous/infamous dealers, that reminded me of what my best friend used to say as we walked down the aisles of gun shows and heard all the Bull S... stories that went with each gun. He said: "Alway buy the peice, NOT the story."

If the seller said: "Its's supposed to have been carried by ( insert any famous person's name ) at the battle of (insert any famous battle or gun fight ) and was also believed to have been later owned by (insert another famous person's name ) and I only want ( insert any outrageous price ) for it," step back and ask yourself: "Without writtten unquestioned provenance, what is an average condition
( M1911 .45 , 1858 Civil War musket, Colt 21A, 1873 Colt Peacemaker, etc etc ) worth on the current market?" Once you answer that question, don't pay a cent more than that amount and you will NEVER get stung.

There was an old story going around for years about Pancho Villa's widow living just outside of town and how visitors would inquire about her from locals who would tell the visitor: "Yep...she lives just outside of town and I believe she still has Pancho Villa's pistol and wants to sell it."
The visitor would rush out to see her, pay her a fabulous sum for "Pancho's personal pistol." Then Mrs. Villa would make another tirp to town to the pawn shop and say: "I'd like to buy another one of your cheap handguns like the one I got last month..."

Sorry to be so wordy, just couldn't stand it when I thought of some of the old stories that your recent posts have stirred up.

Bill Douglas
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#14 dalbert

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 09:48 AM

Here are a couple of catalog images that may stir up some memories...

The Good Old Days...1972 L.E.S. Catalog:

user posted image

September 1972 J. Curtis Earl Catalog:

user posted image

David Albert
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#15 colt21a

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 11:59 AM

dave nice picture's i have them both.plus another four or five of earl's catalog's.when i did the interview with him in 1999,he gave me what he had,however it did cost me a chinese dinner,and 12 hour's of my time.
however we made amend's.laughed and had a good day. i do miss the old cuss.i guess in his younger day's he was alot better.

the les catalog was out of skokie ,il. morrie and mike rojak..thats who i bought my first thompson from.the $900.00 colt 1921a model.good people and they had a amazing collection..however the fiasco of the rojak p-18 brought them down big time. a pistol a little before it's time,based on a steyr design.before people new what steyr was all about.

and the first source for f.n.f.a.l.'s and mag -58's.and the uzi sub.along with sam from interarm's.. he never did get his 1930's manville gun project off the ground, however in "dog's of war" when chris walken is trying to buy them in a hotel room...the sale's guy has a brochure with mike's pic. on it trying to sell them to the merc's.

i was involved in that for the financing..good time's and sad.morrie died of cancer, and last i heard mike was in florida{retired}danny,sam,and the rest of the bunch are gone!

the nice thing about those time's i met everybody who was anybody in the gun field.and you used the phone. to talk.from col.burt miller,to gene stoner,reed knight,roger cox,gene petersen,and a 100 other's. in my somewhat silly story in t.g.newsletter year's ago. i put in a few thompson people in a story to them..wink!

it would be something to see all these good storie's in a book. probably would be the size of gordon's {phone book}sized creation! but who'd read it all??

yes alot of amazing things in the past 35 year's...not many left anymore from the fiftie's or sixtie's to help the youngblood's..hopefully it will all go on...on a far and distant galaxy.

take care,ron
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#16 colt21a

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 12:30 PM

the shade's of earl>has returned.seeing all these long worded ad's to sell overpriced thompson drum's and part's kit/s............drum's in the $4,000 to $10,000 range... WAKE UP PEOPLE!! the gun's sold for that,,not that long ago....and i remember guy's complaining about thompson's being $10,000.00 a mere five year's ago..thats right five year's ago!! and they had to pay $5,000.00 for a hurley..{the colt copy}

2001 thru 2005 has the madness stopped??

maybe 2006/2007 will be the "year of the gun"....and thompson's will hit $50,000 each..and nobody will buy them!! yeah baby!! and this madness for accs. and the nutty pricing..patent mag's $250.00 shot mag's $1,200.00 c-drum's $10,000.00.................

do i blame some of the idiot's for posting those price's??to a point yes!but also to the buyer's who pay that..... then expect another profit over that when they tire of it..and move on to something else!

then they advertise all the " my precious"{lord of the ring's} thompson item's for sale...and expect the new tommy guy to finance the flub they made in buying it in overinflated price to begin with...because they have to move on $$$$$$$$$$$barf!

i forsee nothing good in the future in this once "fun game"of history,great gun's and expert craftmenship on metal and wood....

maybe the guy who bought his for $800.00 or $1,000.00..still take's it out of the safe and clean's and take's care of it..and refreshes his mind on the history of it all...and doe's not care about any value of it..because he has no reason to, has no intention's of ever selling it..

{ wait that was me}

hopefully the guy's who recently paid $30,000.00 for one.will have that warm and fuzzy feeling about it..however me think's not...$$$$$

and if the economy change's in the future..and it will....the old dude will sit there and sigh..heck it's only a $1,000.00 i had fun and some good time's and memorie's..

and the $30,000.00 guy run's around in a panic...like daffy duck....find me a buyer...

think i'm wrong..take $30,000.00 today out of mega buck guy's wallet. and watch him cry.. wink!!

it's all fun right??

don't lose hope....the old colt dude is out there..just get tight with his daughter..he -he-

just remember to pay fair market for it..and in the end.it go's to somebody else anyhow!!

take care,ron
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#17 craig101

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 04:37 PM

The Savage Model of 1928 that i recently sold WAS a Dewat from Earl.

i still have a copy of the form 5 saying it was a Dewat.

i phoned the guy who bought this gun from Earl back in 1967, he is a local guy. he paid GOOD money for it, like 2-3 times what other people were selling dewats for in those times, but he said he wanted a thompson and got one.

i got out of it, cause it's too spendy these days.

i paid $1,200 for my SW76 back in 2000 and $2k for my reising last year (needs new ejector). i'm fine with these. at these prices, i'll just shoot the hell out of them.

i shoulda kept that 01 and AR18 that i paid for, but never did submit the paperwork for back in the day.

sigh!

Craig
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#18 must

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 03:03 AM

On the subject of the "Good ol' days" prices, I paid $500.00 for a NIB Colt M-16 (in 1977). I thought the $200.00 transfer tax was crazy! mad.gif

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