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Question For Pk


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#1 jhc

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 01:28 AM

Pk can you make a semi auto fire from a open bolt? I cant have full auto cause I live in illinois. I was just wondering so it would look more authentic. Thanks JC
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#2 DC Chris

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 01:46 AM

(Not to answer as an RKI, because I'm not).... I am pretty sure this is a really big no-no per the ATF, and I will offer the following to back up my assertion.

I remember back a few moons ago (early 80's) that someone (RPB?) made an open bolt semi MAC. The ATF determined that it was too simple to convert to a full auto gun so either those guns had to be registered or converted to closed bolt and all future produced semi auto MAC's would fire closed bolt. It is uncommon to see any open bolt gun that isn't full auto these days and conversely there aren't too many closed bolt full autos(both cases do exist, however). The same holds true with semi-auto Thompsons - a few designs were suggested until Trast/AO WH received approval in the 1970's to make a closed bolt semi auto. The Kahr designs are direct fallouts of that design. Of course, since May 86 we can no longer file the forms to pay the tax and make a machine gun so RPB didn't have the same rules to play with.

I agree a M1A1 or 28 bolt back is more authentic, but I would leave that to a registered full auto gun if you ever leave your state. Even though it might be technically possible, I don't think the tech branch of the ATF would smile upon an open bolt semi and would probably go after anyone who did so. They could probably make a case that you *could* be making an illegal machine gun. Its just not worth 10 years in the federal can - even if your intent was to keep it a semi.

My opinion - I wouldn't do this. However, you can have PK add a semi bolt "hold open" feature that will lock the 1928 or M1 bolt back (such as if you are changing a drum on a 1928), but it does not allow you to fire from the open position. He did this for a M1 SBR for me in the past and I like the modification.

Just my 0.02-

Chris.

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#3 Sgt

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 08:58 AM

I'm not PK, but I've read a lot of posts with this topic. Everything I've read says don't do it; it just won't be approved by ATF. I agree with DC Chris, you can go a long way to dressing up your Kahr cosmetically, to make it look like the originals. I love the hold open feature on mine. It makes the insertion of a drum so much easier. I went with Damon's work, at Tommygunner, who did a stunning job with my Kahr enhancements. PK's work is top notch too! I'll post pictures of mine in a few days; still learning my new digital. Good luck with your projects!
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#4 Norm

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 12:18 PM

jhc,

I'm not PK, but I am sure he will tell you the same as we have. The short answer is...NO...don't do it.

An open bolt firearm (full-auto or not) manufactured today (by anyone) is defined by the ATF as a macinegun. sad.gif

On top of that, you live in IL which does not allow registered machineguns.

If you really want an open bolt semi-auto, your only hope would be to buy an RPB open bolt pistol (if IL even allows that!) The problem with these pistols is that they are very hard to aim and shoot. Since it is a pistol, it has no stock and you can not attach a front grip. Since it is an open bolt, it "lurches" when you pull the trigger. And last, they are expensive.

If you have semi-auto Thompson, I would just stick with it. The good news is that you can have your gun modified so that you can lock the bolt open when loading and unloading a drum, but it does not fire from an open bolt.

Norm

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#5 jhc

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 12:28 PM

Okay thanks guys will just have to stay the way it is. I realy need to move to a different state so I can own the real deal. Probaly wont happen though. JC
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#6 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 04:28 PM

I'm not PK... Just wanted to make sure ya-all knew that.... I have an open bolt semi but it did cost me $4,500.00 to make it that way....
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#7 Sgt

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 06:06 PM

BigD--
Did it begin as a full auto?
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#8 PK.

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:09 AM

I am PK (last I knew :-), and while I could do this easily, and the result would be quite pleasing, I wouldn’t.

The problem lies in the language of the law that’s about items being easily adapted or readily restored to fire more than one shot per trigger pull (I’m not gonna look it up right now). In general terms, this means that anything open bolt won’t pass muster. In the case of the MAC, even though all the components were welded in place and you couldn’t get them out, they determined that you could grind (or break) the disconector off and that made it readily restorable.

Anyway, great idea but a huge risk not worth taking.

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#9 jhc

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 11:00 AM

Okay thaks PK. JC
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