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#21 sten guy

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 10:12 AM

Beautiful gun... When are we going to shoot it?? biggrin.gif

STEN


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#22 Sgt

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:31 PM

Sten--
I'll give you a call this week.
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#23 Grey Crow

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:09 PM

Best of luck at the range!

Don't forget save the brass....... tongue.gif

Lets be careful out there.....


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#24 Joshua

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 05:08 PM

I’ve been lurking for a few years and hoping to enter the brotherhood of Thompson ownership next year in spite of the Kahr problems. It seemed I could get them fixed.

The above wreck brings to mind some old questions, and reveals some answers as well.

Tommygunner has a great webpage and the gun in this thread is beautiful, but from bits and pieces posted in the past I had gotten the idea that Damon was a computer/ software engineer kind of guy full time and hadn’t handled a Thompson until two years ago at TCA. If Tom has been doing the work all along, this would make sense.

Hudson trading has been around for quite a while as I recall. Although not known for high quality in the past (if my fuzzy memory is ok), that may not have anything to do with Tom currently.

I have no trouble using PK, but it’s nice to look at choices.

So, I guess what I’d like to know about Damon and Tom is- who’s doing what now and what qualifications do they bring to the table?

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#25 TommyGunner

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:57 AM

Joshua,

Welcome to the board. Glad to see that you were somehow finally enticed to come out of hiding after all these years by this post. Computer/Software engineer? Wowsers! I appreciate the compliment but even though I do all the webwork and can even do some programming, ecommerce and build my own websites...and some others. I have never taken a computer course in my life...just typing. As a mater of fact, I have no formal education above 2 years of college (Business/Pysch) and none of it relates as to what I do now. I teach myself what I need to know and always manage to get by. As far as guns go...by the time I get the real time movie of how they work to play in my head...it is pretty much figured out.

The Thompson show and shoot was the first time that I shot a Full Auto all right...and the only time as well. Tom did not ever even see a Full Auto Thompson untill at least a year after that. (I had to explain how the frame comes off of the reciever) I have not been out of NY state since then so I have not had the opportunity. However as far as semi's go...I have a couple and got my first long before I ever got the idea to get into this business. Actually, I wanted to put a detachable stock on my gun and got to learning, needed to find parts and an Idea sparked. Gotta start somewhere.

Since you have asked...I will clear some more things up...and then put it to rest.

Tom was a machinist and FFL holder that's it. He never did all of the work on a single gun by himself ever. He would be given jobs and told how to complete them. I personally engineered all of the custom parts...not him. He is not the only one who worked on the guns. BTW...the total of custom guns that Tom had go through his shop was 4...that's it. All the others went through Jim's. We are getting ready to finish a run of guns and will post some pic's of those...the quality is the same...just more of them. I trained and oversee both of them.

Tom is a general gunsmith, not a Thompson specialist. He dosen't collect or take interest in the hobby but now it seems he may want to try to make a name for himself. He had alot of problems and made some major mistakes. Even crashed a tool into the reciver on one of the custom guns and destroyed it.

Why did I stick with him? He had a real sad story. He was struggling with his business and complaining to me that his partner, Bob, just backed out on him and the partner before that had taken all his customers. His girlfriend just through him out on the street...he said the excuse was because he could not pull his own weight. I felt bad for him and I try to be loyal. At least he seemed sincere...so I tried not to give up. He was sleeping on a cot in his office after all. He even filed personal bankruptcy in a last ditch effort to save his business. I didn't want to cut his knees off.

When did it all go bad? When things started to bear fruit. I managed to hook up with Kahr arms and started a good working relationship where I felt I might even have a chance to influence some improvements in production...It worked! We could get the guns cheaper so we sold more and Kahr started sending all the custom and west hurley gunsmithing to me. I was on very good terms with them and they even made mention that they would be willing to floorplan some guns on credit! I was excited about the possibility of putting together a gun shop full of Thompson's...a real specialty shop...and told Tom about the conversation and the idea. Thought since he had the shop and FFL we could work out an arrangement that would benefit all. He liked the idea and we decided that we would work out the details on forming a partnership LLP. Would take some time but seemed doable. In the mean time sales went up and the business started turning the corner to profitability in it's second year. Tom even seemed to be doing better...he was buying things for the shop, had money and even said that he was doing much better financially and that it was great to have the pressure off of him. It seemed that he would soon be able to even start to pay me the money he owed me!

All was going great untill the call. Frank Harris called me and said that they could not ship a gun that we just ordered because they had not recieved a payment in 3 months! He owed thousands! WTF! All he had to do was take the order, deposit the money, clear, order the gun, ship to the ffl, send me my commission and keep the rest. Then I realized why I thought it was so funny that I had 2 customers that seemed to be waiting some time for thier guns and did not get them yet. What Tom did...on his own without telling me...was call Kahr Arms and ask for the credit terms that were offered to me...not him...on my reputation...be activated in his business name so we (actually he) could get the guns on credit. Kahr agreed since I had mentioned possibly setting this up with Tom and had some discussion about it previously. Then Tom proceeded to shake his moneymaker! He deposited the checks and ordered the guns on credit and did not pay for them! When I confronted him with this he burst into tears and gave the biggest BS performance about how he was such a victim and had to do it. He did lie to me the entire time and do this behind my back. The customers were livid. The first one, Sean, disputed the credit card and got his back but the other guy "Will" paid by money order and was pissed and ready to sue everybody! I think either of these guys would be more than happy to share thier experiences with Tom if Y'all don't believe me. It took over a month to work it all out...thank god Kahr was still willing to work with me and we got it cleared up...the last I heard Tom still had not paid them what he owed them yet.

Needless to say this was very dammaging to a still fledgling business and harmed my reputation with Kahr since I had brought Tom in as an associate.

At this point I realized that if Tom had any financial control over things he would drag me down with him. I have a family to feed and this can't happen so I severed our dealings. This was several months ago.

Now Tom is tring to make that name and attempting to lie about how much he really was involved with things to try to get back at me for taking my business elsewhere. I have noticed that he seems to have a real problem taking responsibility for his own actions and whines and crys the victim while displacing the blame on others. He even tried to blame me for his business failing and that I forced him to go to Kahr and lie to me. Now as he has in the past...is trying to spread lies to get back at me because he has a childish revenge problem. Case in point: Tom got banished from Numrich arms (he did not work on Thompson's...just gages) and told Bobby Numrich that the "next time you see me you better be armed" (there is a police report on this Tom told me). Then he procededs to exact this rediculous revenge scheme. First he starts spreading rumors that Numrich is going out of business. Numrich's lawyers force Tom to post a retraction on the home page of his website for 3 months. Then he gets clever...Tom designed the 1911 detachable stock for Numrich when he worked there. He then set out to make a better detachable stock, get it pattented and a failed attempt to market it. He lost an unbelieveable amount of money and effort to produce a useless product...just for revenge. You can see the stock and how he slams the part he designed for Numrich as a "canoe paddle" if you Click Here You will have to scroll past the stocks to near the bottom of the page.

And he thinks that he has some right to use my name "chopper ordnance". I will get a lawyer for that one if needed.

FYI...all the stocks he sells are made by Wood Plus...not him.

Hey, don't take my word for it though...verify the facts for yourself.

Between web development, dealing with customers, research, engineering, repairs, custom guns, parts, and the whole lot of it...one person can't do it all so some things have to be farmed out...no one person knows all that we do...but me.

I am curious. What specifically do you know about Hudson Trading post? Tom has been in business for a while and he has owned it for years so any reputation gained would be due to Tom. Curious to know what you know.

Best,
Damon


OH...BTW...almost forgot. When you were lurking...(for a couple of years)...were you registerd under another name? Forgive me but your profile says you registered yesturday...not 2 years ago. You would have had to have registered to lurk...so what name were you registered under? I am curious are you real or do you have some motive here? Sorry to be suspicious but I know who I am dealing with. And you being him would fit right in.
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#26 Sgt. Fox

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 09:09 AM

lol... I didn't know it was possible for someone to actually be a more active member after they throw a tantrum and leave for good than they were before the grand egress! laugh.gif
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#27 Joshua

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 11:25 PM

Damon;

Obviously I would have to be registered under another name to lurk, but I won’t give away that handle. I have found that I can usually find out the information I need if I quietly observe. Because the gun I want requires some effort and time to save for, I have decided to enter this thread for the first time anonymously. I could see the potential for controversy and don’t want whoever ends up with my job to have any reason to feel badly towards me. Some folks call me paranoid, they are probably right, that’s just the way I am. You and lionhart seem to think you know me- it would be fun to hear your guess.

My desire here is not to slam anyone, but simply offer the opportunity for the players to provide some information that has not been posted previously. Is that a bad thing? Some seem to feel so. I don’t know what you are paying lionhart, but whenever your name comes up he seems to be there, right on cue with the scripted line or innuendo. Whatever it is it isn’t enough. :-)

I had the idea that you were in the computer business and now see ‘idamon.net new media solutions’ noted on your WebPages, and Tomygunner as a division of that company, so I guess I wasn’t to far off.

To answer your question; I know little about Hudson Trading Post. I seem to recall a post concerning an aluminum dummy receiver made by them that was touted as not very good, but I could be wrong.

In your response, you made it very clear that you don’t think much of Tom, but told us very little more about yourself, specifically relating to your ability to service my much anticipated Thompson. If I dig a bit it would seem that you are ‘self taught’ (not a bad thing given enough time). You did tell us that Tom has an FFL and is a machinist & gunsmith by trade. His WebPages also indicates he has machinery and is a graduate of a formal gunsmithing college.

Who is Jim?

It sounds like you are the front man for your company and do little of the actual work on the guns. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this (lord knows you’ll probably make more money that way), but in many of your posts you have taken credit personally for the work and that bothers me a little.

I guess I’d like to know: does Tommygunner (you) have an FFL? Do you have a shop facility under your control outfitted to do the work you advertise, or do you subcontract your work? If you do the work yourself, what additional qualifications do you have?

I think these are honest questions and would hope you and Tom and whoever would take advantage of this opportunity to help us get to know you better.

Thanks for the welcome by the way.

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#28 TommyGunner

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 07:45 AM

Joshua,

Reveal your true identity and I will be more than happy to answer all of your questions. ( most of them were actually answered by my thread if you read it, and the others are common knowlede on the board which you would know if you actually lurked). I will address one issue though...

You said:
"My desire here is not to slam anyone, but simply offer the opportunity for the players to provide some information that has not been posted previously. Is that a bad thing? Some seem to feel so. I don’t know what you are paying lionhart, but whenever your name comes up he seems to be there, right on cue with the scripted line or innuendo. Whatever it is it isn’t enough. :-)"

I do not pay Devlin...he responds on his own...for his own reasons. I did not ask him to respond. Are we friends...Yes...it is no secret. All that he actually did was affirm the obvious that I had pointed out. If I was trying to be subversive and stack the board on my side...I would employ the use of some secret newly registered name to do my dirty work if that was the case...not somebody that is known to all! I see you have a good working knowledge of what I am talking about.


At any rate...I do not feel the need to explain myself to someone who obviously has some hidden motive and does not have the decency to address me in person but instead hides behind a fake identity. Makes it very easy to cast any stone or perpetuate any lies without any accountability for your actions. So since you are such the benevolent soul and only want for the good of the board...reveal yourself. If you do not...thats your business...but I will not respond any further to someone who does not have the decency or courtesey or balls to speak for themselves.

Best,
Damon

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#29 full auto 45

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 08:07 AM

troll.gif
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#30 TommyGunner

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:13 AM

iagree.gif

Uh...oh...I feel a new video coming on... biggrin.gif
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#31 full auto 45

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 10:48 AM

Troll hunting 101. In the snow it should be a good mess!
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#32 colt21a

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 01:17 PM

when you listen to all this malarky!! is that the right phrase???thats why i am starting to hate the gun bizz lately..oh well maybe the last five year's...some a-hole bashing somebody someplace...that they know nothing about thompson's...or can't build there own.or get part's or whatever....MAN if i had the reason to blow the lid off dealer's and manufacture's i could...they all farm stuff out.and they use one another....this one get's them a barrel, for trade for wood.they use another dealer to get them this....and even some {i seen it and know it} say they built it...and guess what.somebody else did the work someplace else,ever hear of {b-west arm's?} ak receiver's built by somebody else and stamped with them.

man you should hear my oaklawn ,il gun shop tale.

i have dozen's of them...and alot of major player's....damon, tommygunner.. joshua or whatever or whomever you are..{ maybe secret spy!! who want's that all together thompson} or just some carny or circus freak trying to stir the pot...{ and man i've run into a bunch of you guy's in past five year's>>>

maybe it's my south side chicago upbringing,and hanging with mafia street type's.or just the five sense's i was born with and the two> horse and common you pick up through life>>>>> if you have a interesting life to begin with. and not just some internet cowboy when all this started ten or so year's ago....when everybody say's {can we talk}shade's of joan river's.....wink!


it sounds like somebody here laid the card's on the table about tom's problem's...sad case..we all in life have a cross to bear.some heavier then other's...some can carry it.some drop it.and some later on get nailed to it..by mistake's they make,and sometime's by themselve's...we all have done it.{WE ARE HUMAN! REMEMBER THAT!}


and every one of us is f-edup in our own simple way...some project that more then other's..

as in a few hour's i will prove that at the s.a.r.show in phx....never in human history will so many disaster's be walking in and around the planet in one area..wink!

any b.s. meter will break...

so let's have fun guy's...build what you want let whom reblue what he want..just tell the truth......it's a beetch sometime's....but remember you ain't never gonna remember all your told lie's..so tell the truth.have fun...and enjoy.......and if you can't do that..do all the board member's a favor..take that 55 chevy hardtop off the canyon yoopin and a hollerin! to a glorius fireburst when you hit bottom....i'll be there to catch ya! wink!

take care,ron

can you leave angel dust for santa.or is that a religious thang?
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#33 TommyGunner

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE
when you listen to all this malarky!! is that the right phrase???thats why i am starting to hate the gun bizz lately..oh well maybe the last five year's...some a-hole bashing somebody someplace...that they know nothing about thompson's...or can't build there own.or get part's or whatever....MAN if i had the reason to blow the lid off dealer's and manufacture's i could...they all farm stuff out.and they use one another....this one get's them a barrel, for trade for wood.they use another dealer to get them this....and even some {i seen it and know it} say they built it...and guess what.somebody else did the work someplace else,ever hear of {b-west arm's?} ak receiver's built by somebody else and stamped with them.


No secret here Ron...this is how manufacturing works. Never did I claim that I did everything..and openly admit to farming certain things out. It's commonplace in manufacturing and business. If I need a part that I don't make and someone else does...and a good one at that...that is what I go with...and never take claim to making the part. Pretty normal stuff. Just some take it further than others.

QUOTE
man you should hear my oaklawn ,il gun shop tale.

i have dozen's of them...and alot of major player's....damon, tommygunner


This I would love to hear. I have never done any business with you before. Just one or two brief phone calls and an email. I would love to hear what story you claim to have. Do endulge us.

Please keep in mind folks one small revalation....Ron and Tom used to work together...and are friends...puts things in perspective.

Tom cannot speak for himself here...phunny how nothing is as presented huh?

QUOTE
it sounds like somebody here laid the card's on the table about tom's problem's...sad case..we all in life have a cross to bear.some heavier then other's...some can carry it.some drop it.and some later on get nailed to it..by mistake's they make,and sometime's by themselve's...we all have done it.{WE ARE HUMAN! REMEMBER THAT!}


Mistakes? That's your conclusion and the one that I held onto untill my hand was forced. This is a credibility issue. Tom screwed up and is out for REVENGE as he has in the past. I personally don't think it's ok to screw people over. Your opinion seems to differ. If you want to take up for him that's fine..."just tell the truth...and have fun"

Damon
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#34 colt21a

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 04:40 PM

damon you must be bustin my ball's right...i just said everybody has hard time's..you want storie's i can tell you horror tale's from curtis earl to bob perry.to current day import's... and i'm a friend of tom????????????who the fwuck is he and how would i know him......the only time i went to jersey was for a nathan's dog.

don't throw your ex- partner at me and ask me to redeem him in the all glowing light of redemption... and yep we all havea cross to bear ...however i guess new yorker's cannot read into the printed mispeeled word's here and get my meaning.{only me! duh!}

if you have a bone to pick it ain't with me..i just made some real simple comment's in your favor dude.in your FAVOR.................................

now if you hear of any grand happening at s.a.r.show in the new's. how some rabid class three went off on some vendor..and put his head on a stick,and waved it around at the show for retail..........i'm primed. wink!! damon get some hot brew.the b.s. will pass guy.it's supposed to be fun remember..


and get what i post.it's in the hidden message.. remember in war.the enemy can hit you from all direction's...and i'm not you're enemy...peace love out.

ron
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#35 TommyGunner

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 05:39 PM

Ron,

I owe you one big apology. I got half way to town and reailzed that I may have confused you with a conversation that I had with someone else and took everything the wrong way. The truth is that I do have a hard time understanding your posting style...makes me feel dumb actually. I guess I just took things the complete opposite as to what you said. I heard asshole, cowboy and thought you made reference to some story you had about me. I am embarassed for acting in haste and apologize for lashing out at you in that way. You did not deserve that. sad.gif

Can't change the past...just take it on the chin.

Damon

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#36 Joshua

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 08:55 PM

Damon,

I’m glad to see lionhart has a sense of humor, it was a joke- see the little smiley face? If I had wanted to slam anyone I would have said he was paid to much! :-) Remember, familiarity and predictability are what makes stand up comedy work.

Even if I gave the name I originally registered under it would do you no good, only keep me from using it in the future. It doesn’t have anything to do with this discussion, don’t try to divert attention for the subject.

You seem to think I have some hidden agenda- not true. The publicly announced problem between you and Tom simply made me want more information about how my gun might be handled if you got it for service. I had no bone to pick befor but admit you have ticked me off a bit with your attitude and lack of forthright response.

Outsourcing is a common and honorable practice in manufacturing ("parts is parts" but not really), but when we are talking about service on personal property, the customer has a right to know what’s going on and who is doing it. I disagree that your previous posts made clear the extent subcontracting you practiced. Commonly you would say "I did this" and "I did that" about the jobs completed when clearly you didn’t. I don’t have a problem with someone saying "my company hires the best craftsmen and I personally stand behind their work.", but prior to the revelations in this thread, I only had an inkling that you were just fronting.

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder- all I asked you to do was give some detail of your operation, are you that ashamed? Respectable companies would jump at the chance to show off . Whenever you feel cornered, you strike out. I did not attack, disrespect or say anything negative to you in any fashion.

From what you have said (and refused to say) I can only conclude that you are not a gunsmith, have no equipment or facility, nor an FFL. That you will subcontract my work to someone only known to you and I have to take my chances.

So I guess my question is answered.

Who am I? The customer you won't get because you didn’t ..."just tell the truth...and have fun"



Ron, How in the world can you make "some a-hole bashing somebody someplace" out of anything I said?

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#37 colt21a

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:11 PM

QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Dec 2 2005, 05:39 PM)
Ron,

I owe you one big apology. I got half way to town and reailzed that I may have confused you with a conversation that I had with someone else and took everything the wrong way. The truth is that I do have a hard time understanding your posting style...makes me feel dumb actually. I guess I just took things the complete opposite as to what you said. I heard asshole, cowboy and thought you made reference to some story you had about me. I am embarassed for acting in haste and apologize for lashing out at you in that way. You did not deserve that. sad.gif

Can't change the past...just take it on the chin.

Damon

damon no problem next time in tucson,i owe you a pizza.well it's really cardboard with ketchup on it.that whats they think is chicago pizza here..

plus being from out of this world my post's sometime's can be hard to follow.make's you wonder those that do..must be from a far distant galaxy also. wink!!

spock logic...or "godzilla lingo" if you can't stomp them,tell um a joke..

have a good weekend..take care,ron


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#38 colt21a

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:16 PM

JOSH you don't want to tangle with me.you will just die laughing....give the board a break....and take your bizz to tiffany arm's.just refrain from using the fax paper.wink!!


i think now i will call you the"lurker"

there was a comic book character like that once...

or maybe it was the "stalker" or stinker" or something..

it's a beeatch gettin old..

one day you'll see..............have a good one have some fun...........take care,ron


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#39 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:57 PM


Ron,
Chicago pizza is an oxymoron.

Sgt,
Just out of curiosity, why does a a full auto TSMG owner ( I got that impression) go to such lengths to transform a Kahr semi into a tricked-out SBR?

But I guess if Sgt didn't go for broke, we wouldn't have this marvelous "Desperate Housewives" with milling machines thread.

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#40 colt21a

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 10:39 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Dec 2 2005, 09:57 PM)

Ron,
Chicago pizza is an oxymoron.

Sgt,
Just out of curiosity, why does a a full auto TSMG owner ( I got that impression) go to such lengths to transform a Kahr semi into a tricked-out SBR?

But I guess if Sgt didn't go for broke, we wouldn't have this marvelous "Desperate Housewives" with milling machines thread.

did you ever eat a pizza pie in chi-town....??must have if you went to vollmer's it's only 100 or so mile's away!! kinda like georgia peache's, and apple dumpling's,and punkin pie.....it's all in the eye and mouth of the beholder!!!

the show today only 70% vendor's showed up..i'm sure by sat. it will be a full house..same-o same-o take care,ron
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