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General Attitudes About Kahr's?


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#1 treadhead

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 12:37 PM

Hey folks, just found this place this morning and wanted to say GREAT site! woot.gif

I found it (This site) looking for information on the Kahr produced versions of the '1927 VS the older AO guns. I'm looking to buy one and Actually passed-up a great deal a couple of months ago (An "As new" AO '27 with detachable stock kit installed for $550) because I "Heard" that the Kahr guns were being made quite a bit better than the old AO's were.

After reading a few of the threads here I'm thinkin' I got some bad info on the Kahr's (?)

Anyway, just wondering if it's better to find a pre-Kahr AO or go with one of the new ones? The gun will be the starting point for an SBR project I'd like to do.

Thanks in advance for any tips smile.gif

Edited by treadhead, 27 November 2005 - 12:37 PM.

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#2 Hawkeye_Joe

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 01:34 PM

Here's a tip...don't be a Charlie Brown......

user posted image

Like the "New" Kahr L drums.. they were supposed to be great... then you find yourself sailing thru the air ......


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#3 Ron A

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 01:42 PM

There is nothing wrong with a Kahr that a $1,200.00 will not fix - if you are going the SBR route, then taking off the BBl replace the lower, replace the wood, mounting a real rear sight - then not much is left of the Kahr.

It just depends on how much you plan to spend to make the Kahr something it not!

I have been down that road - twice.
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#4 Sgt

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 01:49 PM

I can't speak for the older Thompson semis, but I have owned a Kahr for about 4 years. It was a disaster straight out of the box. Every other round would jam, one ignited before it was completely seated and back to the factory went the gun. After two months of waiting, I got it back. It worked fine with several mags and then I broke an extractor. I fixed that, then the frame stuck to the upper, so I just threw it in the box and forgot about it for several years. Until recently, I sent it off to Damon at Tommygunner and he made it reliable, also enhancing its appearance.

Some people get a good Kahr out of the box and others aren't so lucky. In my opinion, it would be better to get a used one, with an honest seller who could substantiate that it works reliably. Otherwise, it would be a gamble. If you don't mind tweaking it, and putting more money in it, then you won't be disappointed in the new ones. Maybe some of the others here might chime in on the quality of the older ones.

In case you didn't see my recent project, I'll post this link again. I am very happy with the final product, even though the journey in reaching this point was frought with peril. LOL

http://home.comcast....ahr27/index.htm
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#5 Zamm

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 03:15 PM

treadhead,
One of the nice (and reliable) things about the older West Hurley guns was the amount
of surplus GI parts they used in assembling ( such as GI extractors!)
I had put thousands of rounds through my 75 westy until around 2003 it chewed up the internals ( most likely
from poor upkeep sad.gif )
Best, Z
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#6 treadhead

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 04:52 PM

Thanks for the input guys.

Ron A, you have a great point! lol

Zamm, yeah, I've had a couple of the WH '27's over the years and even owned an 'A5 that I (STUPIDLY) sold in 2000 for $1,200 (Which was a heck of a lot more than I paid for it) and I don't remember having too many problems with any of them (Other than those nasty long BBLS biggrin.gif )

Hawkeye', Great cartoon! Sums it all up pretty good.

Sgt, Just awesome guy! Replace that vertical fore-grip with a horizontal one and put a cutts-compensator on it and you have the gun I'm wanting to build. I didn't even know about the open-bolt option 'till I saw your gun.

Looks like I messed-up more than I knew passing on that deal a couple of months ago. I don't know WHERE I got my information about the Kahr guns (I'm thinking Kahr PRESS RELEASE right now! LOL) but it's looking like I've been misinformed about them.

Thanks again for giving me a clue.
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#7 Grey Crow

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 10:09 PM

treadhead

Mine is about the same story as Sgt. excepting the internal problems.
It fed terribly out of box, going to GI mags. really helped allot, as well as changing the profile of the mag catch.
I went the SBR route, and had the bolt hold open feature added, as well as other enhancements.
All of the breakage problems I've had were with using steel cased ammo.

Been keeping my eye on a WH 27. LOL, guess what, it dosn't work either.
But with the info gleaned from here and playing with mine, I feel I can make it go. Provided I can get it at a VERY reasonable price.
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#8 ronterry

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 05:53 AM

Currently at 6 jams per 200rds, if that gives you any clue to the reliability. That's of course after many hours of working on this gun.
You guys can count me as one that got a turkey out of the box, and the drum is absolutely junk!

I cut so much off the receiver that I can insert unmodified mags, and they catch! Believe it or not that decreased the FTFR from 4 or 5 every mag to the current FTFR.
FTFR (Failure to feed rate) = a new term invented by the Kahr 1927A1 smile.gif

My next goal is to polish the chamber, since most of my FTF look to be caused by the bridge into the chamber of the tight chamber itself?
I'm going to work on the extractor a little bit first.

My NIB Springfield Garand is absolutely perfect out of box, and cost about the same????

Ron


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#9 JimFromFL

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:14 AM

I for one wonder why these people are invited or even allowed at the annual Thompson show.

Does that give you an idea on my opinion?
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#10 Dylan

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 01:43 PM

I've had mine for two years, just under 5000 rounds through it now. Haven't had any feed problems since I modified the mag catch to use original mags, it even eats up hollow points without a hitch. I've gone through two extractors (believe it was due to the laquered Wolf I was using, haven't had any problems with the new poly coat Wolf), one firing pin, and I recently had one of the recoil spring guide rods break (no damage other than it flattened the spring). Overall I'm rather pleased with it; it's fun as hell to shoot and decently accurate (usually groups about 4-5" at 100 yards)... not to mention it's a hell of a lot cheaper than an original and doesn't have the typical NFA headaches.

As far as the Kahr L drum, I had to tweak the internal guide rails to get the rounds to pass through smoothly and the rounds sat a little too low to get picked up in my gun so I tweaked the feed lip up a bit so the round would sit higher. It didn't work straight out of the box, but with less than an hour of tinkering with some pliers it works like a charm... just don't think about loading it with hollow points (they catch on the front cover). wink.gif
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#11 ronterry

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 04:28 PM

'PhilOhio' yea that area you described what I called the bridge? is very smooth, but seem to me that the angle could be a little better. On close inspection of a FTF looks to show that the chamber is just to tight.
I've study that a little better.
The mag lips took a couple swipes with the file to clear the bolt, and the mags are very tight in place.
I've played with the OAL of my rounds with little change. Currently running 1.265/230 RAN RN/6.4 VV340.
The drum, oh boy the drum! After getting the tracks realigned I get rounds nose diving into the drum itself. I haven't got around to messing with it till I get the gun functioning halfway decent.

Ron
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#12 full auto 45

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 06:03 PM

I've looked everywhere, but I cannot find the smiley taking a dump. That's what I think of Kahr. user posted image
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#13 JimFromFL

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Nov 29 2005, 06:03 PM)
I've looked everywhere, but I cannot find the smiley taking a dump. That's what I think of Kahr. user posted image

Until you find your smiley, lets use this....


user posted image
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#14 ronterry

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:47 PM

I'll give you a range report sometime this week if the weather cooperates. I'll get this thing to work!!! Already working out a jig for the barrel removal blink.gif Just have a feeling its going to come down to that.
I will have to start a new thread after my trip laugh.gif
I was thinking we should get credit for; Anger Management 101/102/201, and Kahr Gunsmithing 101/102/104/201/204!!! and negative credit in Economics 101 mad.gif Don't forget the gold stars for diligence & perseverance...

Ron

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#15 full auto 45

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:17 PM

Jim, I almost wet myself when I saw that of Klinstoner's evil assistant AlGore.
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#16 Grey Crow

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:29 PM

PK did all of the work on my 27, it works like a champ.
You can't beat his work!

So long as I stay away from Wolf ammo, but that aspect has nothing to do with smithing.

He opened up the chamber to mil spec. and set the head space, another important part of the equation.

Once you remove the barrel and open up the chamber and correct head space you may need to realign the front site.


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#17 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (ronterry @ Nov 29 2005, 08:47 PM)
I'll give you a range report sometime this week if the weather cooperates. I'll get this thing to work!!! Already working out a jig for the barrel removal blink.gif Just have a feeling its going to come down to that.
I will have to start a new thread after my trip laugh.gif
I was thinking we should get credit for; Anger Management 101/102/201, and Kahr Gunsmithing 101/102/104/201/204!!! and negative credit in Economics 101 mad.gif Don't forget the gold stars for diligence & perseverance...

Ron

I have a jig if you want to pay shipping to use it......
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#18 JimFromFL

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Nov 29 2005, 09:17 PM)
Jim, I almost wet myself when I saw that of Klinstoner's evil assistant AlGore.

Unfortunately I can't take the credit as I hijacked it off another board. biggrin.gif
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#19 Sgt

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:20 PM

I wonder if we could make it go the other way?
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#20 treadhead

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 05:39 AM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Dec 2 2005, 02:25 AM)
QUOTE (Sgt @ Dec 1 2005, 04:20 PM)
I wonder if we could make it go the other way?

Actually, we did. It was called "the 2000 election". wink.gif

THAT'S funny! lol
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