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#1 LIONHART

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 09:12 PM

Thought I'd post this link. I haven't tried this product, but I'm going too. These Folks have quite a bit of other Finishing Products as well. Worth checking their Site out! If anyone has tried these products, please post your results. I know someone that has used the Black Oxide Kit with remarkable results, and he forwarded this link to me.

http://caswellplatin.../kits/black.htm
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#2 TommyGunner

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:38 AM

This appears to be a cold Black Oxide. The description and even the light blue color of the formula seems to be exactly the same as the cold black oxide process that I have alot of experience with. This stuff has been around in industry for a long time. In my experience this stuff is junk compared to Hot Black Oxide. While it can produce a very nice looking finish...I do not think the abrasion or rust resitance is very good at all. Parts rust pretty easily and youi can also easily rub the finish off with a piece of denim. The finish oil bath is supposed to bond/seal the surface and provide rust protection same as hot black oxide but without the quality of the hot blue to begin with, durability suffers. It comes out nicer on coarse finishes than it does on polished finishes. I would not use it on guns unless desperate. Good for tools but not guns in my opinion.

I was interested in thier chemical nickle plating kit...anyone have any experience here?

Damon
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#3 Sgt

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 01:33 PM

Damon--
I used a large amount of their copy chrome to refinish a printing press roller. It is different from regular chome, as it doesn't require preliminary coats to get it to adhere to steel. You just have to monitor the heated temperature, anode amperage, and make sure the solution is aerated. It would be easy to do small gun parts, compared to my 300+ lb solid steel roller. As in everything, the preliminary polishing of the metal is crucial. Its been a pretty tough substance, having been tested under tons of moving pressure from my printing press, going on two years now.
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#4 Carbine1

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 02:14 PM

I've had good luck with Caswell's black oxide kit. It puts a coating on steel that is similiar to the black coating found on impact sockets. Works like cold bluing, but does not leave the same color, the black oxide leaves a very dark and even black color. I find it works best on steel that has been glass bead blasted. It does not work well on polished steel as Damon states and does not build like parkerizing. It will wear after some handling and lighten but the steel will hold the black color. I haven't had any problems with it wearing and the part rusting but I keep my stuff well oiled. I would not strip a functioning WWII Thompson and use this stuff on it but if you're building a display piece, want to bead blast/recoat some internals, sling mounts, screws or strip and recoat rusty mags I think you'll be happy with the finish it provides. The penetrating sealer appears to be nothing more than mineral spirits that stops the chemical process. Save some money and just buy the BO concentrate, mix with distilled water per directions. Also, if you heating the part slightly to 120 degrees or so will provide a more even deeper finish than dipping cold parts.
Hope this helps.
Len

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#5 Sgt

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 02:50 PM

What equipment and supplies are needed to bead blast?
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#6 Carbine1

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 05:17 PM

Sgt,
You'll need a 3-5hp air compressor and a bead blast cabinet. Check out tptools.com or Eastwoodco.com for cabinets. You won't regret purchasing a cabinet if you work on small resto or refinishing projects, amazing results. Local automotive machine shops sometimes offer glass bead blasting service if you don't have your own setup.
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#7 Sgt

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:30 AM

What's the name of abraisive stuff do you put in it, if you want to do a typical bead blast of say, a parts kit?
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#8 Carbine1

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:02 AM

Use glass bead media available at tptools.com. I've found they work best 99% of the time unless a part is very rusty and pitted, not likely on a parts kit. Completely de-grease first, won't cut through built up grease and oily dirt like sandblasting will.
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#9 full auto 45

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 05:34 PM

talcum powder works good for the final run. That's what a friend who has a blasting company uses on my stuff.
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#10 TommyGunner

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:04 PM

Phil,

The more you use the glass bead the finer and finer it gets. The finish on my M1 is from some very well used bead and makes a very fine finish. I personally like to polish the surface a bit before bead blasting to to get the really silky look. I would just top off the bead when it seemed to get low.

Damon
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#11 Carbine1

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:40 PM

Phil,
Damon is right on. I've had the glass bead media in my cabinet for over a year and it is still working well. If you start blasting really rusty/dirty parts the media will gunk up faster. If you're careful about what you put in and degrease or wire brush the really rusty stuff first, the media will last longer. There are all types of media from glass, silicon oxide, mixes and even walnut shells. All impart a different finish and cutting action. I've never tried talcum powder, I'm also interested on the final finish it leaves. If you're into restoring or refinishing anything that has metal parts from guns to motorcycles, I guarantee you won't regret purchasing a bead blast cabinet.
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#12 full auto 45

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 09:25 PM

Phil, The parts I got back from him looked like they had been chrome finished when he used the powder. I had the metal from a '28 buttstock, all of it, and it was not really rusty, but a piss poor finish. I also had him do a few xxx mags for me and they turned out real nice. I had 2 nickle plated for a show piece. You may have seen them at the TCA show. Tracie used one for the NRA show couple years back.
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#13 choppero

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 03:26 PM

LIONHART,
I have had a number of years experience with this type of product. Starting back in the 70’s at Numrich Arms and their 44-40. I am not a chemist so this was explained to me like I knew nothing (which I don’t). All of the cold blues are pretty much the same chemical composition. Selenium, copper phosphate and an acid base. The process as described to me by Bob Pero, the North American distributer of BlackFast (ww.e-blacksolutions.com) is, and I hope my memory is good enough to keep it straight, as follows:
Start with ABSOLUTLY clean steel. When the steel is submerged in the blacking solution a chemical change occurs at the molecular level where a molecule of iron is replaced by a molecule of copper which is now oxidized. That begins a growth of oxidized crystals that are bonded to that first layer of steel (no dimensional changes). Sort of like how ice grows on a puddle or lake. In the BlackFast process this takes no more than 60 seconds. The part is rinsed completely of the solution and this point the black oxide is a very delicate crystal structure. When the part is submerged in the de-watering oil the spaces in the crystal are filled in by the oil (you can actually see a change in color as the oxide takes in the oil and probably carbon to finish the process (the soaking is recommended to be about 30 minutes). The part is then left to hang as the oil cures on the steel. When it is wiped down the excess black WILL wipe off the steel. That’s pretty much the way the stuff works.
The difference in the different brands is that most all of them are shipped with a HAZMAT label that adds a bunch to the shipping. This is because of the high acid content of most of the solutions. Acid base solutions, over time, tend to neutralize them self and that diminishes the strength of the process until it has to be dumped and replaced. Not so with BlackFast. This stuff, which was developed in England for industry, is concocted in such a way that their ph is no more that a coke o cola. Whatever the difference is, it doesn’t have a HAZMAT label. And the best part is the solution can be added to to keep its strength. (I have been using the same chemicals for about 4 years). It is so benign that I use it in the same room as my $50,000 CNC machine (try that with hot blue).
Now to the question of durability and resistance to rust. Like I said, I have been using it for about 4 years and in that time have blued a lot of stuff. I have some prototype tools that have been kicking around the shop for a coupe of years and aside from scratching and bangs, the color has held up darned well. It will not hold up as well as hot blue or rust blue. Maybe 60% as durable. But what it will do that hot blue cant is blue cast steel (like the savage double and single barrels that turn red), hard steel, nickel steel (some Winchesters won’t blue for beans) and it will cover solder joints (both soft and silver) like they weren’t there. I even use it to “antique” new replica brass Harley and Indian parts. If you have checked out the Blackfast web site you will notice the Canadian Gov. test of the product. It has better corrosion resistance that hot blue. The only time I have had a complaint about rust was when I hurried a touch-up to some modified part and didn’t follow my own advice and rinse completely and soak for the recommended time in the oil bath. I use BlackFast on all the parts shipped from here. I don't use it much on gus any more since I can get hot bluing done by my friend Jim York.

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#14 choppero

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 04:06 PM

I used dulite in gunsmith school lo these many years ago and then again at my first gunsmith job in North Dakota. Imagine bluing out back in a steel building at 20 below zero. The ice formation in and outside the building were spectacular. But keeping the polixhing compound from freezing was a bitch.
Tom
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#15 John Jr

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 09:45 PM

I use Moly Resin biggrin.gif

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