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Dec.4th.s.a.r.show Report.


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#1 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:39 AM

well the long of it.three m3 greaser sale's get this one> $20,000.00 $23,500.00 and $24,000.00.....colt thompson's better watch out huh??this is nut's....

two m16 a1 $13,500.00 and $17,000.00, ak-47 really a chinese akm rec. new in box... a complete rip in my book..converted from 5.56x45 to 7.62x39 gun...

at least 8 mp-40's on display..tube gun's average.$7,900.00 get this one...a few original's $14,500.00 $16,000.00 and $17,500.00 and a few tossed in mp43 and mp-44 $19,000.00 and $18,000.00 a crapload of uzi's post.pre and transferable.the most pricey was a mini at $7,800.00

four wes-hurley's i spotted $14,500.00 $14,000.00, and 13,500.00

and just about everybody raved about cond.of the stuff.about 80% of it was crap.shot out, dirty,rust on some some pit's some refinish part's...and plastic and bakelite on some was changed for sure to pure junk!!!!stuff you see in nightmare's...

and this is supposed to be the countrie's premier show for class three stuff.

and of course every semi akm and ar-15 you can think of.and with every accs.to make it as heavy as a b.a.r.1918a2{yes i do know what that is asked one dealer...

i guess because i did not wear a thompson badge i could not comment.spent some quality time with merle . murray and gordon..and talked about the good old day/s..they also had a colt kit for $8,000.00 for sale and some drum's for $10,000.00....and all the thompson's goodie's a person would want.from over the water..{finally got the scoop on that stuff} very interesting!!!

so we will be in drum's, pouche's, cleaning rod's, m1 and 28 kit's,belt's and other item's for awhile...

now if they can get that cache of over 500 plus colt c-drum's out and on the market..maybe the drum price will drop for awhile..i am not doing the deal and i am not interested in it..

the normal batch of other stuff was there..

and the replica model thompson's on real kit's for $900.00

even a lowly brit sten for $12,000.00 and a tube version for $6,500.00, and a pre-sample for $3,500.00

a few old time dealer's had some chatting time.and we wondered where it is all going in future..

one comment from one was: you know not that many year's ago you could save up $7,000.00 or $8,000.00 to buy a full auto in a year or sooner...now today how in the frick do you save up $30,000.00 or $40,000.00..........he knew some at the show that made $200,000.00 plus a year..and they said after house payment's family and the benz lease.they would find it rough to sock away $40,000.00 for one gun....let alone buy a few of them...they are all trading other gun's they paid less for and made a killing on to do it.{the secret}

another dealer paid $8,000.00 for a overstamp..sold it a few year's ago for $16,000.00.and recently bought it back at $20,000.00..so he has $12,000.00 into it now!

i guess thats the way to do it.

i had enough on me to buy a coffee and roll.wink!
and dream of better day's!! ha!i did pass around a bag of cashew nut's to friend's..yum!

overall. the show was like the last five year's past.just higher price's.even some had the same gun's from last year that did not sell.with a higher price this year...i guess they figure>new face's and wallet's..however i did not see the public crowd going nut's.just looking at the hang tag's and walking away saying. i won't sell mine now.it's worth that much??or that muddfwucker dealer just offered me $15,000.00,and he is selling the same thing on his table for $20,000.00..or some saying well look's like i won't be going class three this year.unless it's a mac-10..those by the way in all condition's from $2,300.00 to get this $4,000.00 gordon ingram would be proud.his book collection was for sale on tommy nelson's table..

a bunch of pricey mini-gun's..when have they been cheap!!

and about seven colt's all priced from $28,000.00 to $35,000.00 cased set's>>>funny thing the one cased set. i sold back in 2000 for $7,500.00 was there in all it's glory for $35,000.00...........wow ! some collector is really getting a break!! on that deal!!so i walked looked and spoke very little, had a bunch of people following me for awhile!seeing what i looked at and took note's..maybe they figured with that black bag. i was going to rob that rare spare part's kit for sale at $7,000.00.............however a few of gordon'e moved off the table for $300.00 complete.brush and pull through.

when you really think about that cash layout.$7,000.00 versus $300.00 for a black tin box in top of the case..i'm glad he did it!

screw the original's from rip-off greed dealer's{yep i freakin said it.}i had six of them and all sold fair..

the best was a wes-hurly L drum for $800.00...a guy with a eyepatch,no not a pirate or wallace berry!!

a few old time tommygun collector's showed.they brought out a few gun's..and a few junker's...

overall i was not impressed!and it's not age either.

they are trying to make the most out of the least..a well known class three dealer's ex-wife mentioned.it's not getting to be fun anymore.gun's are ratty,shot out not even cleaned anymore..and they want bigger buck's..

post sample's could have filled ten table's.

oh! yes.and the two gun's i went there for.one was sold on friday,missed by a few hour's.and another >price was jacked up $1,500.00 from wed.to sat>i said well i will still take it if nice. no pit's or rust.will see on that one.

i'm sure other's will have something different to report..that had attended the show.

just remember this humble report is from a traveler who's done these thing's for 35 year's..ya get green.{jaded}

anybody want to hear my deal of the show??

anyways.take care,ron

p.s. sunday not worth going back...let them drag it all back home for next year..and that crossed out price tag in ink..with new higher priced listed. wha!! ya can't handle the truth.. have fun.
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#2 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:48 AM

"i guess because i did not wear a thompson badge i could not comment.spent some quality time with merle . murray and gordon..and talked about the good old day/s..they also had a colt kit for $8,000.00 for sale and some drum's for $10,000.00....and all the thompson's goodie's a person would want.from over the water..{finally got the scoop on that stuff} very interesting!!!

so we will be in drum's, pouche's, cleaning rod's, m1 and 28 kit's,belt's and other item's for awhile...

now if they can get that cache of over 500 plus colt c-drum's out and on the market..maybe the drum price will drop for awhile..i am not doing the deal and i am not interested in it.."


top secret or can you spill da beans?


"the best was a wes-hurly L drum for $800.00...a guy with a eyepatch,no not a pirate or wallace berry!!"


yeppers that is "one eyed jack" he had that drum at the big reno gunshow..... so you think i made the right decision to pass on it? dry.gif

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#3 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:02 AM

the drum's are sitting in a off trade zone.imported to the fatherland in the 20's..all like new and new..around 500 of them...yes the hamburg did sail with drum's.

was told $100,000.00 to buy them..are there really 500 thompson collector's out there to buy them..i was sent a pic..and a buddy had them in his hot little hand's..he knew to call me on that subject..and should he invest and will they sell??


however i want all the dealer/collector's to first move all the $5,000.00 priced drum's first..

then when these come out if ever!!

the clown who paid the 5 g can say to his wife or kid's..oh honey you ordered me one of those $1,000.00 drum's for my birthday!!you should'nt have.i just got ripped for 5g on this one..what the heck we's rich....wink!

now for my buy of the day...a original mp-40 sling,and original unissued mp-40 41 date loader>$65.00

now somebody tell me how to remove ugly grey iraq paint from the leather??how it ended up there i will never know..HELP NEEDED> take care,ron
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#4 LIONHART

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:53 PM

Maybe I'll be in attendance next year...
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#5 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (LIONHART @ Dec 4 2005, 01:53 PM)
Maybe I'll be in attendance next year...

it's only worth the trip if you are willing to spend the time to play retail plus...as most could care less about any kind of deal...i loved the best one.a guy in a airborne outfit reinactor's group carrying a m3 greaser...later on in the show he posted a cardboard cutout stuck in the barrel.reading if i remember correctly. amnesty form four original $23,000.00....with mag..looked to be reparked.{nice job} for a spring,a wire and a prayer!!

heck a replica valk. arm's or broadhead armory. at $900.00 would do the same..and they were there for sale.and still in the case late sat.night.

nice fg-42 replica mini model for $8,500.00 for those who have money to toss....give it to the needy...screw the paperweight.wink!take care,ron
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#6 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:49 PM

Ron,

I agree with your SAR show observations. Every year there are the same people extolling the virtues of SAR shows over on the Subgun board. Shea and Kokalis must pay these people for their endorsements and testimonials. See link:

http://www.subguns.c...cgi?read=505547

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#7 John Jr

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:01 PM

What do you have against Peter Kokalis AF? He refuse to publish some bogus report you wrote about the colts or something? Or did he bang your old lady? You have always hated him IIRC.


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#8 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE (John Jr @ Dec 4 2005, 03:01 PM)
What do you have against Peter Kokalis AF?  He refuse to publish some bogus report you wrote about the colts or something?  Or did he bang your old lady?  You have always hated him IIRC.


Other than the fact he creates a mythical military career for himself and prefers to dress up in SS regalia, I'm sure he is someone you would be proud to bring home to your mother.
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#9 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 04:03 PM

i heard a few tale's about pete,i care not to repeat.from a few friends and neighbor's.his personal life is personal i guess..

and yes alot of s.s. and german stuff at the show along with japanese stuff...some are finally collecting that now.since american,brit and german has hit a all time high..and when i go to show's i rattle a few cage's at all table's..play the dummy,until they spout something off.
and have fun in it all,and not get too serious so they get offended.{unless they are a real screamin arsehole..then who care's..

yep even kind ole ron can get feisty............and i don't need a shaved head, tattoo's or full gabby haye's beard or a frickin 75 pound beer gut to prove anything to anyone.tho i did see alot of that...and some should wash before attending a show.or mouthwash would help.wink!!

and pleeze clean up the crack whore's with the banger's...while picking up the tec-9mm.however some of the arse tatt's look nice!!no nipple ring's noticed..he-he!

one of the funny thing's a guy thought that i was a real "joke"{i do have some humor} when i said i sold some n.y.drum's for cheap..and he said to me, how many you got left to sell me now? and then decided to sit on one of the table end's..it cracked and broke off.{never seen that before at a show} and he almost fell on his smart arse!}

i got a chuckle on that one!! the thompson ghost's was lookin out for me! i ain't afraid a no ghost's.!!

and yes they need the attendance to be up.heck they gotta make the dough of course to pay the bill's...and it's great to see about 20,000 sq.feet of mg's and assorted good's in one place..
however it's not like indy used to be or the creek,or the astrodome show's or the old ohio show's,one of roger cox's last i attended..he had three colt's on the table...and some small part's,the lawyer's had eaten up most of the dough!

so i'm sure a good time was had by all...if not there is next year...

take care,ron

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#10 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:56 PM

when i saw a mg-42 complete rig for $45,000.00 and a akm redo for $12,900.00, and a chinese,{not even a original "real deal" nam bringback!}akm in 7.62x39 cal. for $15,000.00 it was scary...

sad as it is i really did not see anything i would be proud to own if i had all this giveaway cash...even the cased set's did not impress me...the miniature fg-42 and mp-38 i liked..but gulped at the $13,000.00 price for both>>any taker's here??he boxed them and took them home again,three year's in a row,however nice stuff.

i sold my best two cased thompson'sand one 1921ac i split up 1921ac>

about five year's ago. if i compare them to the super duper bargain basement price of $35,000.00 then the 1921a and 28 navy i sold should go for $80,000 each today!as i am not sure how many have seen 98-99% colt's and everything in same shape with proper manual's and spare part's kit's and cases.
no brag just old truth!

and yes phil it is sad.and sometimes maddening, when i see borderline crap pushed off as rare {"exotic}and in great condition.when lying through their teeth.
even the sten gun's and all the h&k clone's and sear gun's did nothing at all.. even some came by my buddie's table,and said oh! i shot one of those once..but heck i can't afford $13,500.00 to buy and shoot one now.with the rolex watch and gold jewelry around the neck.and the wife dressed to the nine's.

along with some of the more flashier class three dealer's spouting off how much they spent last year in gun's..and how rich they are..then jackin you for $200.00 on some gun or part!! that really impressed me the most.

or the dealer who came by a few of them.saying i'll write you a check for that mg-34 right now buddy at $13,000.00 then finding out it was a pre-sample then the price offer dropped or they said oh my customer want's transferable.

and we had one,but the price tripled. then they shuffled away into the crowd.buying a belt.or $20.00 part.oh the humanity!!

enough youngblood's in the crowd.in the other building's,and many commenting you got's to be rich to go there.them gun's are over $10,000.00 to shoot bullet's them's nut's..

and a few who stated..i make $40,000.00 a year.however can't afford that.i will stick with my mauser's.some vendor's at least a dozen mentioned last year was better for them.and i'm sure some will say the best year ever. beef jerky, popcorn and $3.00 a bottle water vendor's and $5.00 handburger{no glove's} vendor's.wink!

ah yes to be able to write this in s.a.r.review magazine..

a outsider's look at s.a.r.2005.

my "press me" badge.did not get me any deal's..
or parking.

it was all in fun.and real pricey cashew's..$4.00 for half a pound.
and stale churro's for $2.00 a guy's gotta eat.

i am sure a good report will come in from somebody here. mine is under the heading."the real deal"with all the sordid outtake's..
lomont, landie's dater,and a few other's had been in good spirit's.they brought a bagged lunch wink!

bob's now taking order's for the 1918 bar's for 2007...
clyde ,bonnie you out there?

the bottom line is have fun.and take it all with humor.
because for the most part alot of it is a JOKE!

however for some vendor's i felt.they sat bored ,other's could not control the theft!ya gotta bring more kid's to watch them table's. hint! take care,ron
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#11 full auto 45

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 09:32 PM

iagree.gif It all falls back to the thing pushing prices higher then ever is DG. Yes that's right, dealer greed. I've seen it. I don't deal with dealers who live on it. I know a few. I deal with a couple guys here in state that are true to the hobby. one buddy I do show with will be hapy to only make $500 to $1000 per gun. Or less sometimes. Stupid, no, if you like repeat customers. *Sale one a month and make 2-3 grand or sale 3, 4 or 5 and make a grand each. You do the math.


*price may vary on actual transaction.
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#12 colt21a

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:47 PM

i think he reduced it for the show by $2,000.00..if some did sell great for the buyer.the anticipation of waiting to get it. when i showed helmer a few of my colt's. he just gazed!! HE LOWERED PRICE!!

ask anybody out there who ever bought one from me.what they think...including my wes-hulee's and militarie's.around 125 customer's.just on tommie's..
THEY CAN TELL YOU THE QUALITY OF WHAT I SOLD AND MY GRADING"
sorry curt's gone. J.CURTIS EARL FROM PHX. most have always asked keep me on the list for one. i don't do that anymore,it was a free list then..and passed out leads for gun's also..do you think some ever remembered a favor back... frick no! IT'S CALLED HELPING PEOPLE LOCATE A THOMPSON.
however i have little voodoo doll's in a old brit oversea's crate. my original colt packing crate went to a cop in lemont ,il.he probably used the thing for firewood by now. cold winter's.I REMEMBER THOSE THAT DON'T REMEMBER THE FAVOR'S!!CAN'T KEEP THEM IN COLT CRATE IT'S GONE...

i thank the guy's who bought my last twenty...and even tho at the time they even wanted a better deal...i'm sure they have some idol in bronze on the mantle with the gun..saying glad he convinced me to buy it.wink!! THIS ONE YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT.PUT ON THE THINKING CAP..

over and out.ron
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#13 colt21a

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 12:17 AM

QUOTE (pat k @ Dec 4 2005, 11:55 PM)
No idea what that means!

PAT YOU'D BETTER GET WITH THE PROGRAM. get out the chicagoese dick ton nary!

maybe somebody here can help pat....funny thing not one person at the show misunderstood me. i speak softly and distinctly............sometime's too quiet for some.i don't want to disturb their slumber...

and wink and smile...they might think you are disturbed and just give you a break.... take care,ron
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#14 philasteen

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 09:01 AM

Ron, because you were late, you missed the $23K Colt 1928 Thompson that Landies sold on Friday morning early. Looked like a 85% gun, original finish.
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#15 colt21a

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 09:39 AM

i know i heard about that one,and thought really no big deal at $23,000.00 for a 85% colt.since not more then five year's ago.i sold them for $7,000.00..so with today's pricing. and really five year's is not that long sure 15 or 20 but not five,now if was around $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 i would have been the first to say WOW! pretty good deal there, however i guess the guy who saw the wes-hurlee for $15,000.00 figured it wasa bargain. funny thing the same guy's used to say that about colt's ten year's ago...why spend $6,500.00 for a 90% plus gun i can get a hurley for $2,000.00. spock logic. or col.kirk?? wink!! have fun. also did you buy anything yourselve???or just window shop and make not'e on pricing like most.. take care,ron
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#16 Grey Crow

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 10:37 AM

I can't attest to the SAR show, but this year at a local show dealers were selling extractors at $20.00.

I passed!

Came home and ordered 5 more at $10.00 from Numrich.

Granted that some poor or rich soul probably bought them at the 20 figure, and thought they had a good find.
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#17 amafrank

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 11:02 AM

I can't speak for the others since I was pretty much unable to get away from the table but I can say that 21 and the overstamp did sell pretty quick. I'm not sure about the rusty dirty thing either....I know most of our guns had been cleaned and were in pretty good shape. The Chau Chat was a little scruffy but was priced accordingly....Prices were fairly reasonable compared to others as, well dealer greed or not. We sold a bunch of MG's and ran out of many mags and parts. For us the show went great, got to meet a bunch of neat folks as well as many I had been emailing or dealing with for years. In the 10 minutes I managed to get away from the table I found an AR upper I needed at substantially less than I had expected to pay, the guy later came and gave me the bolt carrier that he thought would fit the upper.....
I know the price thing is pissing off those of us that don't own small (or large) countries but its reality and you have to pay if you want to play. I don't normally deal in MG's, I just help out the Ohio Ord guys at the shows. I keep all the transferables I can lay my hands on and just do repair work to pay the shop expenses so I feel the pain too...
Thats it from here.....see ya in harrisburg next weekend if you make it out.
Frank


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#18 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE (Grey Crow @ Dec 5 2005, 10:37 AM)
I can't attest to the SAR show, but this year at a local show dealers were selling extractors at $20.00.

I passed!

Came home and ordered 5 more at $10.00 from Numrich.

Granted that some poor or rich soul probably bought them at the 20 figure, and thought they had a good find.

If I needed just one extractor I would pay $20.00 in person rather than ordering paying shipping and waiting for it.... And I'm not rich btw....
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#19 tcgoll

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 08:31 PM

I picked some Thompson parts and a Seymour drum for $450, but the best deal that I think I got was an H&R Handygun in 28ga serial number 87 for 1K. Great show ovrall.
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#20 TNKen

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 11:07 PM

Glad to see an MG-42 at $45k. I have an unusual one, and my ask on it would be six figures. No, it isn't for sale right now.

I think a lot of folks get an SOT, pick up a few pieces, overprice them, and hit a few shows and the net to make it a business. There is one guy on Sturm that has had the same stuff for the last 4 years. Just keeps bumping the prices ahead of the market. Hey, gives them a deductible excuse to come to a gun show. Maybe smarter than the rest of us.

Ken
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