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Two Colt Thompson’s


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#1 h46pedro

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 07:46 PM

The ad reads:
I have for sale two Colt Thompson’s. One is a 1928 Navy overstamp with a NY 3rd L drum for 30K and the other is a 1921A with NY 3rd L drum for 30K. Both very nice guns.
Does anyone know this guy or any history on the guns?
Merry Christmas and Happy Shopping.
Al
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#2 LIONHART

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 08:45 PM

Believe he's a Member here...
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#3 DC Chris

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:03 PM

30K for a good condition, non refinished Colt 1921A is in the ball park.

30K for a 1928 overstamp is high, in my opinion.

Both sound like nice guns, however. Maybe the seller can post a few pictures or provide some details if they are a member here.....

Chris.
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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:40 PM

There is no hierarchy of value between A, AC, and Navy's, unless we are talking about a three digit serial number. In fact, since most Navy's went to the Military, foreign and domestic, there are probably fewer of them in the ATF registry than AC's. The condition trumps all else.

$30K for either sounds not only in the ball park, but it's in the infield. It is just a question of what "very nice" actually means.

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#5 DC Chris

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 11:02 PM

Hmm..

I suppose the people offering 20-23K for 1928's are morons, huh? Why not ask 30k as you suggest? Why? Because you are wrong.

http://www.subguns.c...query=retrieval

http://www.westernfi...thompson?set=16 (What an IDIOT!!!! 20K for a 1928AC?!?!? In fact, check http://www.westernfi...om/wfc/thompson - he has a few 1928's (non-WH) for less than 20k - even a rewat woudn't add 10K to these figures.

Whatever. Your assertion is nothing more than your opinion. Back it up with some facts or STFU.

And I am sure you 100% for sure that there are more guns registered in a 1921 or 1928 configuration in the NFA registry too, huh? Again, more BS unless you worked for the ATF, which I doubt.
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#6 John in IN

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 11:41 PM

Not to get in the middle of anything here, but I think you guys are talking about two different "28's".

One is talking about a Colt "28" and the other is talking about a Bridgeport/Auto Ord. "28".
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#7 DC Chris

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 11:48 PM

John-

Please show me where a overstamp sold for 30K and I will gladly shut up. A overstamp isn't in the original 1921 configuration and should not support he same price.

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#8 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:11 AM

John in TN,

You caught on to the obvious while DC Chris was busy overlooking the obvious.


QUOTE
A overstamp isn't in the original 1921 configuration and should not support he same price.
DC

DC,

Original configuration? You mean the addition of the Cutts? I would suggest that the desirability of Cutts or no Cutts is a personal taste thing and has nothing to do with value. The Navy also has the much "rarer" two piece actuator, that can be swapped out in seconds for the 1921 pilot/buffer/spring and actuator. The additional Auto-Ordnance Corporation "U.S. Navy" markings is also a draw for some, not to mention the initial Navy contract guns with the appropriate horizontal forearm and Enfield sling swivels is way more valuable than a 1921AC or 1921A, historical significance,low serial numbers and condition not withstanding.

Not including the much maligned J.C. Devine Colt Navy auction sale that exceeded $32K here are several:

Scott H, April, 2005, Colt Navy, $35K
L.J. Warren, January, 2005, Colt Navy, $35K
Rick Rinzler, November, 2005 $34K for one complete Colt Navy and one Colt Navy parts gun.
Warren Kreiser, September of 2005, Colt Navy $32K
Rick Rinzler, September 2005, Colt Navy, $29K
Dan D, April, 2005, Colt Navy, $28K

Get the picture? I'll know you did from the thunderous sound of silence.

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#9 John Jr

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Dec 6 2005, 11:11 PM)


Scott H, April, 2005, Colt Navy, $35K
L.J. Warren, January, 2005, Colt Navy, $35K
Rick Rinzler, November, 2005 $34K for one complete Colt Navy and one Colt Navy parts gun.
Warren Kreiser, September of 2005, Colt Navy $32K
Brian in PA, August, 2005, Colt Navy, $32K
Rick Rinzler, September 2005, Colt Navy, $29K
Dan D, April, 2005, Colt Navy, $28K

Get the picture? I'll know you did from the thunderous sound of silence.[/b]

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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:34 AM

JJ,

No. These are all advertised sales that were marked "SOLD." In any private sale only the dealer and the seller know what the actual price was. But that holds true for 1921A, 1921AC's and Colt Navy's.

So for DC to demand prices while posting the links to advertised WWII TSMG's, what exactly is the point behind your post other than your desire to show off your waders?

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#11 DC Chris

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:37 AM

Ok Arthur - I will not argue with your numbers, even though I am not sure how you collected that information or how accurate it may be.

Even though it is a few months old: http://www.gunsameri...s/976522888.htm

Again - I don't see that you can make the claim that 1) you know the registry numbers or 2) there aren't guns out there that are less than 30K.

I will give you credit for discarding JC Devine's numbers and will agree upon condition.

As for the 1921 configuration, we know (comp not withstanding) from leaving AOC: 1) different actuator, 2) different buffer and pilot, 3) overstamp on the receiver. It is not an original example of what was made in 1921. Does it mean someone won't pony up 34K for a gun? Probably not.

Chris.
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#12 John Jr

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:37 AM

You don't know shit about appraisals, but that's ok...

No, that's not me in the waders...

This is me....

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#13 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:51 AM

JJ,
You and Cash have one thing in common; you both show no signs of life.

DC,

That Colt Navy on the Gunsamerica board has been there for almost a year and judging by the low figure, poor photo, bizarre description, and swivels where they are not supposed to be, using this example as a gage for Navy pricing is the equivalent of using any other item where if the price is too good to be true there is usually a hitch in the deal.

You are right that I don't have access to the ATF registry. However, I can make deductions from what Roger Cox has reported and from the traceable deliveries of where the Navy's mostly wound up between 1921 and 1939 since they had to be divided amongs the U.S. military, foreign miltary, all FBI sales, and local PD's. The 1921A and AC's wound up mostly in PD's and to fulfill whatever was unsold by 1939 to fulfill sales to GB.

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#14 DC Chris

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 01:03 AM

Arthur-

I do have Cox's book and can see where you are making those conclusions from. However, there has been quite a bit of time between then and now, and it is impossible to quantify what has changed. Could a gun have been refinished? Destroyed and rebuilt? Certainly possible, (as the example on GA could be). On the same token, your sales figures(internet research) could be a inaccurate as well.

I think I recall reading that you used to be active/deal in C3 (my apologies if I am wrong). You should know that asking and selling price can differ widely.

Chris.
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#15 JimFromFL

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 08:21 AM

I don't want to get involved ph34r.gif but John Jr, those are some funny pictures. laugh.gif
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#16 Ron Mills

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 09:39 AM

Ditto, Jim. For just pennies a day, one can enjoy these good-natured volleys and hop in if so desired! slap.gif
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#17 gijive

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:11 AM

DC Chris,

I am interested in your rationale that leads you to believe a Colt 1928 Navy Model is worth less than a Colt 1921 Model with or without a compensator? Are you basing it on recent sales of Colt Thompsons or are you under the impression that the gun was was newly manufactured in 1928 and therefore not as old as the 1921 Model? I am not being facetious, I'm interested in your opinion on this.
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#18 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 07:30 PM

Look at what Kent Lamont is asking in the most recent SAR for a couple of PD marked 90% 1921's each with a New York drum and 4 patent date mags with new production cases (I'm guessing Greg's cases). $35 K IIRC. Damn, just damn. All I need is one more patent date mag and one of Greg's cases and I'm there. tongue.gif
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