19 replies to this topic

[John Jr]

SUBGUNS LINK

Ad Information

Ad Number: 7392

Date Posted: 01/25/2006

Price: 59000

Text of Ad

Very difficult collection to assemble, with the accessories just as fascinating as the gun, itself!!! 1) 21AC Colt Thompson, #6786. Absolutely NO pitting, rust, etc. ALL original. Has less common wide rounded-fin barrel with Type I compensator. Nice blueing, with deep, rich color wood (from handling over the years, most likely). Tastefully stamped on underside of trigger frame "SPS M" (State Prison Systems, Michigan). Great provenance on this gun. VERY eye-appealing specimen of history. 2) ALL ORIGINAL MATCHING c-drum, #198. While this drum is worn on the edges, there are NO dents, dings, pittings, etc. Stunning when displayed on this gun!! 3) Mills Feb. 1921 canvas spare parts kit, complete with original oil/grease gauze, etc. Perfect condition, including straps. Roger Cox claims (page 39) that it's much rarer than the metal parts kit!! 4) Rusco Type A canvas carrying case. While some corners are worn, this case is gorgeous for 80+ years old. 5) Rusco canvas pouch for c-drum in perfect condition. 6) very old repro "police style" hard case with original brass cleaning rod; in great shape. 7) VERY COOL (although the only Non-Thompson item in this collection) military hard case pictured on page 355 of T. Hill's book. Yes, this is the ACTUAL case pictured!!! 8) Perfect 18-shot Colt mag WITH full box of shot shells. Box does have minor tears. 9) Perfect Colt blank mag. 10) Perfect Colt double-date mag. 11) Original nickel oiler. 12) Original 1921 Instruction manual, SECOND edition. Totally intact, although there are oil-stained pages and creases. 13) nice example of 30's Nassau St. catalog. Of course, pictures are available to SERIOUS INQUIRIES, only, please. Better yet, call me at home: 616-874-8865; or cell: 616-443-0034. Thanks for reading through this.
Contact Information

Name: Rick Rinzler

Street Address:

City: Belmont

State/Province: Michigan

Zip/Postal Code: 49306

Country: USA

Telephone Number:

E-Mail Address: rooovain@chartermi.net

Web Site URL:


This ought to ruin sigs statistics!

[philasteen]

It's the "Incredible Colt Thompson Collection!!!"

Wasn't Rick Rinzler selling just the drum for $9000'ish last year?

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

This is going to throw Sig's Colt price compilation completely out of whack! If he throws this $59K price out as the highest, then I guess the $45K one comes in?

What's up with the spin that a police department/correctional facility marked Colt TSMG has more cache provenance than the hundreds of others in the registry that were spared the armorer's pen knife, and whose recorded serial numbers divulge what PD purchased them anyway?

Rink Rinzler. Hummm. It must have to do with people who have repetitive initials. What do you think JJ?

[philasteen]

Arthur, "CE" are not repeat initials.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (philasteen @ Jan 25 2006, 11:27 PM)

Arthur, "CE" are not repeat initials.

?

[philasteen]

J. Curtis Earl, of course!

[TommyGunner]

Phil,

Actually Rick is a vetrinary orthopedist. Quite a specialty. He is a bit new to the hobby and has been hosed pretty good himself at least once that I know about...even by one of the big players! He has a few pieces that any of us would drool over including a 3 digit Colt. He has made quite the effort to authenticate the items that he buys/sells. He originally intended to keep this for himself but found an M60 like new that he has to have. He is traveling in the right circles now though. He may not be an expert, but dishonest, no way. I think he wants the "serious inquirys only" because he is a pretty busy guy. FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable!

Damon

[John Jr]

QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Jan 26 2006, 04:05 PM)

FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable!

Sure he did...

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Without the advantage of access to these classified photos, even adding up all the goodies using previously known prices for these items, I come up $10K short of the "sold" price. While I would consider the prison mark a condition flaw, maybe the "SPS M" stamped on underside of trigger frame is worth the extra $10K to the mystery buyer?

For $30K more you could get the Colt Monitor!

Rinzler had a Navy Colt TSMG for sale 9/05 described as "graded by members of the Thompson Club (?) to be between 92-97%" for $29K. He must consider #6786 to be worth $45K(?) by itself.

[Johnny.45]

The Colt Monitor didn't sell @ $80K over the summer so now it is relisted @ $90K?
Buy it now before goes up again in a month.
Or
Save $9K and get the Knights Stoner 63A carbine @ $50K.
But
It may have sold already?
So
Maybe the Cadillac-Gage C&R Stoner 63 Rifle @ $65K is the way to go.

There are many Good Buys on the Boards.

[full auto 45]

As the man said in the movie "Used Cars", a true classic, just before he blew up the Mercades 450 sl, "These prices are just to fuckin' high!"

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Jan 26 2006, 09:55 PM)

As the man said in the movie "Used Cars", a true classic, just before he blew up the Mercades 450 sl, "These prices are just to fuckin' high!"

How about $15,000 (and rising) for a 1955 model 14 Randall knife? That is the current price on one on ebay. Tenite is more valuable than ivory? No Bowles scrimshaw work. I guess it's all relative what collectors value for their money.

The 560 SL is also a favorite of the oil industry.

[OldFalGuy]

I am with Arthur on the value of the gun itself, perhaps a wee bit lower, closer to 33K-35K at the most given the thin blue and other dings as mentioned in the ad- other than the gun and drum the remainder is is also way overpriced, at least to me.
I recently purchased a very very nice 4 digit that was inspected by Mr. Jordan which is unfired but has a very small boo boo on the receiver next to the barrel. If I knew how to post a picture on the net I would and I only consider the gun to be 98% because of the little boo boo.
I hope the new owner is happy as a clam and in time we will all pretty much figure its a steal- and ain't that something to ponder?

[Mike Hammer]

All it takes is one fool to pay whatever the asking price is on these guns, and whammo...that becomes the new price standard for that Thompson class. I have not seen what I would call "bargains" on class 3 weapons in about a year now, I suppose good deals can still be made but certainly no longer over at Bowers or SturmG., everyone there seems to be asking top dollar, and then some!

Mike Hammer

[1921A]

I purchased 1921AC #6786 and two other AC's from the Michigan State Prison at Jackson in 1986. As I recall, it was in about 85% condition but all correct. It was one of ten Colt Thompsons registered to the prison. Reportedly, the other seven were destroyed in a 1968 arsenal fire Sold it a few years later for $3850 to collector in south Florida.

At the time I acquired it, guns in this condition were considered "shooters" by some. The hobby has come a long way since then.

[OldFalGuy]

21A,

Your right, in the past 20 years what was once shooter grade is no longer- for at 26-30k+ a bulged barrel on a true 85% gun might hurt it more than it was even worth back when you sold yours. If the one I just acquired which is real close in s/n range to your prison gun (Alpine NJ Police Department for mine) had been fired I might think about shooting it.... for all of 10 seconds for fear of damaging a barrel and killing the value to the tune of big numbers. Thank goodness I have a Westie I can shoot that cost about what it would harm the value of the my Colt should a barrel get fat on me- though have no doubts I would love to run a drum through this 21 awful bad

[Waffen Und Bier]

Ooh. So I wonder what my 1988 Model 14 Randall is worth? 7 1/2" Stainless blade. Black micarta scales. Got a green catalog flier (in which I personally circled the Model 1 and Model 14 in), sheath, and a black Randall case. Picked it up from the shop myself personally. And I saw Mr. Randall while I was there picking it up. And I thought about getting a patch while I was there. Should make it worth even more, huh?

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (Waffen Und Bier @ Jan 29 2006, 03:17 AM)

Ooh.  So I wonder what my 1988 Model 14 Randall is worth? 7 1/2" Stainless blade. Black micarta scales. Got a green catalog flier (in which I personally circled the Model 1 and Model 14 in), sheath, and a black Randall case. Picked it up from the shop myself personally. And I saw Mr. Randall while I was there picking it up. And I thought about getting a patch while I was there. Should make it worth even more, huh?

That 1955 Model 14 Randall closed at........$28,200! Even the collector coveted Vietnam era Tenite Randall's have sold for maybe $4K-$5K at most. It's as if the 1955 Randall were NFA registered. Bizarre!

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Jan 26 2006, 05:05 PM)

Phil, Actually Rick is a vetrinary orthopedist. Quite a specialty. He is a bit new to the hobby and has been hosed pretty good himself at least once that I know about...even by one of the big players! He has a few pieces that any of us would drool over including a 3 digit Colt. He has made quite the effort to authenticate the items that he buys/sells. He originally intended to keep this for himself but found an M60 like new that he has to have. He is traveling in the right circles now though. He may not be an expert, but dishonest, no way. I think he wants the "serious inquirys only" because he is a pretty busy guy. FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable! Damon

Damon,

Now that Rick has his ad for all the drums, pouches, cases, and brochures listed separately on Sturmgewehr, does that mean that he still sold the Colt TSMG for $59K? Or did he drastically revise his values on the entire package?

If he values the accessories at $15K+, then he figured the Colt TSMG was worth $44K+. Did the buyer he told you he had actually pay 10K more than the going price for that TSMG in the condition described?

http://www.sturmgewe....cgi?read=69460

[TommyGunner]

Arthur,

He said he decided to keep the gun after all.

He just sent me the frame from #147 to study and drool over! He has some nice stuff that's for sure.

Damon