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Reloading Question


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#21 PK.

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 09:06 AM

It will be interesting to see your choreograph numbers. I like to review data from at least three independent sources befor I try a new load; there are some interesting extremes out there.

The original 45 acp loading was for “5 grains of smokeless powder” (things have changed, haven’t they?). I have found that 5 gr. of 231 or Bullseye or the like will yield “factory” velocities & pressures with the 230 gr. bullet.

FWIW, Hodgdon originally bought 231 from Olin and packaged it as HP38. I don’t think they are getting it from Olin currently, but I’d bet if you compare the Hodgdon data to the Olin data they will be virtually the same.

On the side; the working pressure for this cartridge is only ~16ksi. The normal “pressure signs” we look for as reloaders don’t become evident until much higher levels are reached, at least twice that, which is about what a proof load will yield in this caliber.

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#22 2dogsfightin

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 10:49 PM

I will try to crono a few rounds in the morning and post the results tomorrow night. It should be interesting......And you guys are right. I also usually consult more than one source when loading ammo. I think at the time it was the only manual that I had that had HP-38 listed... My favorite manual is an old lyman number four. Which is the first manual I ever owned. It is a little hotter than the new books.....

THANKS for all the good info....


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#23 PK.

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 09:06 AM

Keep in mind that higher pressure does not always mean higher velocity.
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#24 2dogsfightin

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 09:56 AM

Ok, I just got back from my range....And let me tell you it was DANG COLD out there.....24 deg F......I took along what factory ammo I had on hand. here are the results..

All ammo was 230 grain FMJ


MFS --- S&B --- MY Reloads
834 --- 866 --- 949
835 --- 876 --- 951
886 --- 888 --- 973
884 --- 904 --- 973
889 --- 852 --- 979

AV 865 --- 877 - -- 965


Looks Like Im about 100 fps faster than factory..... I have roughtly 1500 rounds of this ammo loaded. I will definitely back down my next batch of reloads. What would be your opinions on shooting what ammo I have loaded?? The Tommy is a GI Savage M1A1.....




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#25 OldFalGuy

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:02 AM

Don't know if the ammo was still room temp when you fired it or was allowed to get cold before firing but I do believe the 24 deg. would have affected the chrony numbers- at least from published standards.

I am no physics whiz or expert reloader but I will take a wild stab here and say that since hot ammo might create higher pressure and perhaps even higher velocity you should be darn careful shooting those loads when it get warmer later on this year. Another stab is colder air being denser whould hold down your velocity numbers (for all rounds tested) to some small degree resulting in higher velocities all the way around and your reloads in particuliar perhaps being over 1000fps at 70deg on a spring/summer day.

Given the valuable nature of your weapon prudence may call for you to pull those rounds and reuse the components in making some kinder, gentler ammunition.
Please be careful and safe-

Mark
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#26 giantpanda4

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:09 PM

You can always do what I did when I discovered a dud in a batch.... fire them all up in a 1911! It usually is forgiving (and a lot cheaper) and will function well with the right springs for hotter loads.

I had my kid help, and we didn't even take that long to empty 700 rounds. biggrin.gif
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#27 2dogsfightin

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:04 PM

Panda , I have already had the same thought....having been a reloader for 30 plus years , I've come up with ways to shoot up goofed up reloads. I've shot a ton of 223 reloads in a bolt action remington. They would not run in my AR15..... They do NOW, thanks to a small base sizeing die.... I've Single fed light loads through a 1911...We have probably all done that one at some point in our reloading career......

The best one though is....... A friend of mine had a HK USP 40 cal and he loved it... So I found a full size one in 45 acp.( a 40 s&w just aint my thing) It was a good deal so I peeled off some cash....Promptly brought it home to test fire. It just so happened that I had a new batch of 45 reloads hot off of the press......so too the range i go to play with my new toy...The dang thing about jumped out of my hand....I promptly took that PLASTIC PIECE OF CRAP to the gun shop sold it.... I'll stick to METAL GUNS..THANK YOU.,.. The next day I am at the range with my trusty 1911. It also tries to break my wrist.... Timeout was called and back to the loading bench I go. It turns out that my favorite 45 load that I know by heart has suddently increased it self by 2.5 grains. A long night with a bullet puller and all was well in 45 land... The bad thing about a progressive reloader is you can make alot of mistakes in a very short period of time.... Maybe I should invent a progressive bullet puller blink.gif


A footnote: I now have another HK USP 45 and they are very reliable and fairly accurate. I plan to keep it as long as Hillary will let me....



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#28 Grey Crow

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:54 PM

I side with PK on the WW231, its been a great powder for all of my handgun loads.

The physics of pressure versus velocity is puzzling, in theory one would think that the more pressure the higher the muzzle velocity.

2dogs,
I know the feeling well, I reloaded 200 rounds of 7mm and had to take them all apart. They fit one 700BDL but not the next one, different chamber sizes, same make, same caliber.

I've been looking to purchase a good chronograph, any suggestions?
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#29 2dogsfightin

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 08:59 PM

Grey Crow... I just have a Shooting Chrony . I did buy the one with the printer.... I would not buy a printer again.... It is troublesome to deal with. I do however like the remote (wired) control which lets you clear bad readings and reset the machine without having to get up... Other people will have other opinions I'm sure. I just needed a chevy not a caddie...... It works for me.


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#30 Bisley45

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 10:56 AM

I'm poping .45's with 5.8 grains of Unique and a cast 230 pumkin, very mild and it works my WH and most of my 1911, depending on how heavy the spring is. I run 6.0 gr when I'm firing my uncles FA as ocasionaly the bolt will not travel far enough and it will double. Mild ammo is your friend with lead bullets, excess velocity will lead the comp.

DO NOT reload strait out of a Manual without a chronograph, there are a lot of varibles some of my guns run over 100 fps faster than others with identical loads and barrel lenghts. Had nasty experiance, load was strait out of book just under the mean of the published load. 45Colts were suddely 45 magnums and I spent many hours with a Lewis lead remover on forcing cone and barrel. Was getting 12,000 out a 4 5/8" Ruger Bisley. Glad I was shooting that old style built hell to stout Ruger.

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#31 Grey Crow

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 11:19 PM

Bisley45,

Youch! That's cooking for a 45LC! And extreemly stiff for a Bisley.

I was looking for a recipe to shoot 230 ball from my Blackhawk 45LC..... Most of the bullets I've seen listed range from 200gr - 150gr +>

Toying with the purchase of a Pact
pro XP chronograph. Plus I want to know at what velocity the 45 ACP is doing between my 1911 and Thompson.
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#32 giantpanda4

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 07:25 AM

A couple of key points were made here.... Don't reload right out of the manual: I take a look at many manuals (even old ones still list some of the powders that are available today), usually they are very cheap insurance. Then I start with a LOW average load from the manuals. Many I have talked to (especially first time reloaders) will use the MAX load from the (maybe only one) manual. That is Dangerous! Work your way up looking at primer deformation and velocities, etc.

The chooting chrony costs right now between $90 and $100 thru Midway, if I remember their last flyer. Years ago my Dad did custom handloading (a very non-financially rewarding and now potentially litigation prohibited profession). I remember he bought a chronograph for $3000, and sometimes it even worked if you could read the flashing light patterns!. I have the beta shooting chrony now, and I just love to play with the thing even if it is not for reloading, I compare different actions with the same ammo, etc. The chronograph is a tool you NEED to reload properly.

Maybe not yet mentioned was the type of equipment you have. For years I used a very cheap set-up, single stage RCBS press and hand weighing out each load (still good practice for rifle loads). Very slow, but easy to check and double check. Then I got a couple of Dillons - couldn't believe their speed....at which they could load squib loads! Just because they are expensive doesn't make them idiot proof. I just found out I was a better idiot!
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