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South St Paul Thompson


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#1 mondabottle

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 01:02 PM

I would like to know if any knows the whereabouts of Thompson serial #s 7744 and 8251. These gun were purchased by the South St Paul Minnesota Police Dept. in the eary 30's. I know alot of the history of these guns and may have access to some eary photos. Also would be very interested in purchasing if for sale. However I really like to know where they ended up
Thanks
Michael Madland
1035 N Concord
South ST Paul, MN,
612-868-8491
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#2 Lancer

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 04:44 PM

According to Herigstad, both guns went to Law Enforcement Ordnance Co. Athens, Ga. 5/12/78. (roger cox)
Ones a 28 navy, the other 21ac.
Hope this helps.
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#3 john

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:39 PM

I think the South St. Paul Police dept. still has a couple Thompsons....one returned by the FBI with numbers ground off. Gordon told me a year ago that while he was digging around the archives in D.C. he had stumbled upon paperwork detailing the recovery of this gun (in Indiana?) and the "lifting" of the serial number by the FBI. They determined it belonged to the S.St. Paul police and returned the gun to them a year or so after it was taken. Gordon returned this original paperwork to the Police department for their archives, as the Gov't was going to pitch it (paperwork reduction act).
As I live in White Bear Lake (12 miles from So. St. Paul) Gordon asked me if I'd stop by the PD someday and take some detailed photos of the gun (he was curious as to how they lifted numbers after they had been ground off).
As of this date, I'd forgotten my promise and haven't gotten over there. Maybe this spring???

I don't know what the serial numbers of these guns are but I'm sure if you call them directly they will let you know.

john
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#4 TD.

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 08:00 PM

Thompson Collectors News Nos. 10 and 12 have information on the South St. Paul Thompsons. It is reported that the only Colt Thompson left at the South St. Paul Police Department is NO 7679. This Thompson was involved in a robbery/shooting in 1933 where a Police Officer was killed. It was stolen, the serial numbers ground off, recovered and sent to the FBI for examination. The Bureau raised the serial numbers and later returned the Thompson to the South St. Paul PD. The department also owns a C drum that was also stolen with NO 7679, above, and had the numbers ground off. This Thompson and drum is not for sale.

The other two Colt Thompsons owned by the South St. Paul Police Department were sold when the department obtained M16s.

John, some pictures of NO 7679 would be nice. This gun has a lot of history behind it.

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#5 giantpanda4

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 07:24 AM

Two methods of "lifting " the S/N include acid (like the one in Betton Harbor, MI). That can leave a mess, but it does show the different microstructiure left under the stamped area, assuming the grinding was only deep enough to eliminate the visual numbers. The other method uses magnetic patrticles and blacklight, the particles align themselves with the grains in the metal, and stamping affects the grains under the numbers as well. Again, depends on how deep the grinding was.

But they probably just removed the barrel and looked at the "secret" s/n!!! tongue.gif
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#6 john

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:16 AM

I mentioned the numbes under the grip support and Gordon told me that the barrel was not removed....

I'll see if I can make some time in the next couple weeks and get some pix and a history. I believe the shooting and theft was part of the Barker gang ("Creepy" Al Karpis?) who were holed up here "on vacation" in White Bear Lake and Birchwood (where I live). Seems that a lot of gangsters and hoods hung out here as the Law looked the other way (until the Hamm kidnapping).

Local historic group does a tour of the cities showing hotspots and where hoods lived. They leave from the Wabasha street caves (where the bootleggers plied their trade during the 30's) and the tour is about 2 hours. I know Dillinger had an apartment in Minneapolis (my dad showed it to me as a kid) and Gordon wanted me to get some pix of that also. Not sure what the address is but I've been meaning to pick up the book "Dillinger slept here".....

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#7 mondabottle

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 12:06 PM

South St Paul owns just one Thompson #7679 It is not for sale (I have asked more then once) It is on display in the Police Chiefs office. I have seen and held the gun. They also have a L and C drum. Im sure it would be no problem for me to take pictures of it. Just let me know what you want Pics of.

Michael Madland
1035 N Concord
South St Paul MN.
612-868-8491
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#8 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE (TD. @ Feb 2 2006, 08:00 PM)
Thompson Collectors News Nos. 10 and 12 have information on the South St. Paul Thompsons. It is reported that the only Colt Thompson left at the South St. Paul Police Department is NO 7679. This Thompson was involved in a robbery/shooting in 1933 where a Police Officer was killed. It was stolen, the serial numbers ground off, recovered and sent to the FBI for examination. The Bureau raised the serial numbers and later returned the Thompson to the South St. Paul PD. The department also owns a C drum that was also stolen with NO 7679, above, and had the numbers ground off. This Thompson and drum is not for sale.

The other two Colt Thompsons owned by the South St. Paul Police Department were sold when the department obtained M16s.

John, some pictures of NO 7679 would be nice. This gun has a lot of history behind it.

I am the author of the two part article on the payroll robbery in the Thompson Collector newsletter # 10 & 12, T.D. has it summarized fairly well. I researched the article by going through the South Saint Paul Police Department archive and case file, reviewing the published news accounts in the St. Paul paper and by examining the gun first hand at the Police Department. Without looking at my articles I can't recall all of the details from the robbery, but T.D. has it summarized fairly well. I took guite a few 35 mm black & white photos and some color photos of the #7679 and a C drum the department owns that also had the serial number defaced. I have the photos and negatives stored and will try to see if I can find them and scan some of them. The articles used to availble off the TCA webpage page at one time but I don't know if they are still avaible. Nobody has ever asked me about additional photographs.

John, if you want to stop by and see if you can take some digital photo's it might be quicker than having me find them. TCA Newsletter #10 & 12, that seems like a long time ago, pre-Thompson Greed. I noticed the last TCA newsletter was numbered at 1....

Take Care, Ross
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#9 john

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 09:05 PM

Ross. perhaps you and Mike and I should get together sometime this spring on a Sunday and "make a joyous noise unto the Lord" as it were! biggrin.gif

I mentioned to Mike that I know of a great DNR range down in Kellogg (South of Wabasha) where MG's are OK....even got the A-OK with the DNR! Never too crowded early SUnday afternoons......

If you feel like doing some blasting as it gets warmer, let one of us know.

john

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