29 replies to this topic

[OldFalGuy]

Fellas,

There are some drums on Subguns- Advertised as Colts- would appreciate some input as I would like one for display. 2 at $1300 both have nickel rotors-no serial numbers, the last one doesn't and suspect its a worchester drum but need help here- don't want to ignore the experience here and make a mistake.


http://www.subguns.c...query=retrieval

I have pics if you need me to email them to you.

[Z3BigDaddy]

That is $1.3 per, right? Here is a link to his album if they allow hot links..... If no picture appears just click on the red X or whatever appears......

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

OldFalGuy,

Yes, the drums and mags that Michael (colttommygunner) is selling are as advertised. I looked at his pics on Sturmgewehr a week ago when clicking on the link worked.

[OldFalGuy]

I thought it was a correct drum but was far from sure and felt it was a fair price- At least now I will have a chance to compare the function of an early drum and a WWII drum- I don't have a post war L drum.
He also has a 4th drum, numbered for 3x more dinero which has the real nice polished appearance- It the one that Z3 is showing in another thread- lots of ammo circle mark in the drum- very nice lotsa dollars too. I suppose its an earlier pattern, I don't have the book yet and not sure which one is betst to start out with either.

[Z3BigDaddy]

Is $1,300.00 a good buy? I tired to sell my NY Drum for less than that with not even an offer and it is a garunteed runner that was restored by Merle........

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

It depends if it is a Worcester or a Colt. Saying it is a N.Y. drum is like referring to WWII 1928 TSMG's as Bridgeport Thompson's. There is a difference between a Savage and an AO. The former made in Utica, New York and the latter made in Bridgeport, CT.

Is $1,300 a good buy? There was a Colt third pattern drum with pre WWII case for $950. I think Cincylane? bought and posted it here. It had a non-nickel Worcester rotor, but the covers were Colt. Is a correct nickel rotor worth $500 more? Probably. Autoweapons has been trying to sell a similar drum like the $1300 one for $2,000 for ever.

Numbered Colt L drums are a whole new ball game.

[philasteen]

What would the value of a Colt "No. ______" drum be?

[OldFalGuy]

Now where is that vibrating pencil so I can put some numbers on the $1300 one...
just kidding-

Arthur, aren't the numbered ones 1st or 2nd pattern??

I figure this $1300 one will do fine to go with my 21AC since it is my understanding that the numbered drums were NOT numbered to any gun- while it would be "nice" to have such corresponding numbered gun and drum they really would not be considered "matching". Which is a shame as that would be about the only reason I see spending $4K on an L drum or $6K+ on a Colt "C" drum-

ONe other thing Guys, I am looking for a COlt nickel buttstock oiler- Anyone have a spare or know where I can acquire one? Jerry at Recon had 5 2 weeks ago but nada when I contacted him yesterday.

Edited by OldFalGuy, 20 February 2006 - 04:55 PM.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Philasteen,

The incoming WWII drums doesn't seem to affect their prices. Considering that they have the correct rotors and covers, and non-dented or pitted in original finish:

$3,500 to $4,000 (?) for the few and far between seen numbered matching Colt L drum, $2,500 to $3,000 for mismatched numbered, $1,500 to $2,000 (?) for "NO" marked sans numbers, and $1,000 to $1,500 (?) for Third version that has neither the "NO," or a number, that is sometimes mistaken for a Worcester drum.

I think Sig conducted a small survey of Colt L drums for sale, but there was too large a gap between those in poor condition and "new in the box" to get a handle on it.

[Z3BigDaddy]

OK Arty how bout the skinny on my drum... The spring was wasted on this puppy so The Drum Doctor did his thing and replaced the spring but doing it discolors the nickel rotor so he had to have it renickled..... All the rest of the finish is original.... So does the repair kill the collectible aspect of the drum?

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Big D,

I think I see the problem. How much less than $1,300 did you try to get for it? It is probably in the $800 range. The covers are third pattern Colt, but the rotor, aside from the replating, doesn't appear to be a Colt drum rotor. The hub is of the sort on Worcester or Seymour WWII drums. You may have been the second person to replate the rotor that was originally a black oxide finish. The inside of the drum looks too clean to have had a rotor used to the point were the spring broke.

[OldFalGuy]

Still a darn nice looking drum-

[Z3BigDaddy]

Guess I need to put in a call to Merle.....

[gijive]

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 01:26 AM)

Guess I need to put in a call to Merle.....

Z3,

Arthur is correct, the rotor hub on the rear is not rounded like the earlier Colt variation drums. I think his assessment is correct, it is a Worcester or AO Bridgeport rotor that has been nickeled.

The covers are Colt era.

OldFalGuy,

The drum you just purchased would be correct for your 1921AC Model. The drum you bought was introduced after the 1928 Navy Model was offered as an option. That is why the winding instructions were revised to include the 1921 and 1928 Models.

Yes, you're correct, the numbered drums were not shipped to match the serial numbers of the guns. The numbering was simply to match the cover with the body after they were blued. The numbered drums were the first pattern drums and only include the winding instructions for the 1921 Model, "Wind to 11 Clicks."

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (gijive @ Feb 21 2006, 07:14 AM)

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 01:26 AM) Guess I need to put in a call to Merle..... Z3, Arthur is correct, the rotor hub on the rear is not rounded like the earlier Colt variation drums. I think his assessment is correct, it is a Worcester or AO Bridgeport rotor that has been nickeled.

Not challenging anyones answers but..... The nickel plate on the rotor looked original when I bought the drum... I'm not smart enuff to notice the shaft.... Is there any reason that Merle may have needed to replace it when he repaired it? As for it not being used enuff to be broken.... Since when do you need use and not abuse to break something? Now I need to dig up some pics of it when I bought it to compare.....

When I posted the original pics, now gone, nobody said a thing about it being wrong.....

Original posting.....

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Bid D,

Of course misuse is responsible for breakage just as over use, especially by PD's, but judging by the condition inside, the SFPD broke it when they dropped it soon after purchasing it, or the guy you bought it from substituted a shaky rotor for the Colt one. Was the rotor working when you bought it? You said it was in perfect condition aside from a couple of dents and the SFPD scratches. If it broke while you were using it are you saying that you misused it?

If the pics you posted in 04 were as detailed as the ones you posted now, I think we would have caught the hub and rotor issue then. But you still only paid $500 for it plus Merle's fees. How much could that be? If he just nickel plated a WWII rotor and substitute it for the Colt one then you do need to call him. But if the rotor looks the same as the one you have pics of from 04, then you still only paid $500 for Colt covers. Maybe the seller was more knowledgeable on drum prices than we previously gave him credit for. Did you buy it for resale purposes?

[gijive]

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 12:47 PM)

Not challenging anyones answers but.....  The nickel plate on the rotor looked original when I bought the drum...

Z3,

The original Colt drums I have do not have nickel plated rotors. The rotors are nickel colored metal, but they are not plated. It is possible that someone may have nickel plated a blue Worcester or AO Bridgeport rotor to make the drum more original looking or to increase the original sale price.

I'll try to post some pictures later to show the differences in the rotor hubs.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

gijive,

Good point! This is why it's difficult to fake a Colt rotor by plating a WWII one, aside from the hub differences. Nickel has always been the descriptive term for some of the Colt TSMG parts when the oil bottle may be the only truly nickeled part. Here is an example:

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (gijive @ Feb 21 2006, 01:30 PM)

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 12:47 PM) Not challenging anyones answers but.....  The nickel plate on the rotor looked original when I bought the drum... Z3, The original Colt drums I have do not have nickel plated rotors. The rotors are nickel colored metal, but they are not plated. It is possible that someone may have nickel plated a blue Worcester or AO Bridgeport rotor to make the drum more original looking or to increase the original sale price. I'll try to post some pictures later to show the differences in the rotor hubs.

Right exactly.... Now I HAVE to find the original pics....

The color looked exactly the same as......

Arty,

It was broken when I bought it just didn't know it.... I hadn't been in the Thompson thing very long at that point and wasn't smart enuff to even know what I bought then let alone now...... That is why I go to the experts...

[gijive]

Z3,

Here are some close-up pictures of the difference between the rear rotor hub on the Worcester drums (blued rotor) and an original Colt era numbered drum (nickel colored rotor). I hope this helps clarify what Arthur and I were referring to.