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Colt Drums For Sale On Subguns


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#21 OldFalGuy

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 10:42 PM

Let me ask the question this way-

What caused the early drum rotorss to be the color they are if they are not plated-

Are the 21 internals nickeled in some manner or is this another example of merely color without any reason or function?

I thought the nickel internals that cost an arm and a leg today were partly responsible (in addition to the lighter actuator) for the increased ROF of the 21 vs. the 28 and all subsequent models.

Its hard for me to see the difference between plated and coated as "something" caused these parts to NOT be blued and are certainly never described as being "in the white" blink.gif

oh, for my own edification- If you could only buy 2 books on the Thompson what would they be and could I get them autographed?

Thanks for the education Professors' hail.gif
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#22 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 10:43 PM

"Z3,

Here are some close-up pictures of the difference between the rear rotor hub on the Worcester drums (blued rotor) and an original Colt era numbered drum (nickel colored rotor). I hope this helps clarify what Arthur and I were referring to.
"




Actually there is no confusion, I understood from the beginning... All I am saying is that it had a nickel rotor to start with, not nickel plated, and that I do not remember if the hub was right when I sent it for repair or not... Honest I'm not confused nor have I been..... I just need to find my pics of the drum before I had it repaired is all.....
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#23 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 11:30 PM

QUOTE (OldFalGuy @ Feb 21 2006, 10:42 PM)

Are the 21 internals nickeled in some manner or is this another example of merely color without any reason or function?

I thought the nickel internals that cost an arm and a leg today were partly responsible (in addition to the lighter actuator) for the increased ROF of the 21 vs. the 28 and all subsequent models.



The 1921 "nickel" internals are in the frame, not the receiver. These have no bearing on the ROF. The actuator, pilot and buffer are not "nickel." The bolt is bright.

Cox's book and Frank's book. The latter signature much easier to obtain than the former unless it already is so inscribed.

Hill's pictures and cut lines has caused so much confusion on L drums (specifically pages 331, 332, 333) that until he puts out an addendum, his book misses the cut off.

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#24 OldFalGuy

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:45 AM

Sorry Arthur I meant frame- are these internals any more or less "nickel" than the rotor is nickel?
Thanks for the book authors-
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#25 gijive

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 07:25 AM

QUOTE (OldFalGuy @ Feb 22 2006, 12:45 AM)
Sorry Arthur I meant frame- are these internals any more or less "nickel" than the rotor is nickel?
Thanks for the book authors-

OldFalGuy,

Not sure exactly what you mean by, "any more or less nickel than the rotor." I believe you said you had a Colt 1921AC Model correct? The sear, sear lever, rocker, disconnector and trip should be a dull nickel/gray color, not blued. If your gun has these features, with no contractor markings, they are correct for your gun. They have no bearing on the rate of fire.

The nickel rotors on Colt era drums can range from dull gray to more silver colored based on the care given the drum over the years. Sometimes, lack of cleaning can cause the rotors to tarnish to a dull gray, similar to the picture Arthur posted. Others appear shiny if they have been cleaned and polished periodically.
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#26 gijive

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 10:43 PM)
Actually there is no confusion, I understood from the beginning...

Okay, sorry just trying to help. I didn't say you were confused. Hope you can determine which rotor was originally in your drum.
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#27 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (gijive @ Feb 22 2006, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 21 2006, 10:43 PM)
Actually there is no confusion, I understood from the beginning...

Okay, sorry just trying to help. I didn't say you were confused. Hope you can determine which rotor was originally in your drum.

Didn't mean to sound harsh, we are all getting a great free lesson here..... It's all good info.....
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#28 gijive

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Feb 22 2006, 12:55 PM)
I think the "nickel" rotors were stamped from nickel alloy steel.  They would start out looking pretty shiny, like straight "in the white" steel, but would not discolor as much with age...because the nickel content is not as easily oxidized as steel.  Gijive, have I got this right?


Phil,

I think your assessment is right-on. I am not a metalurgist, I believe PK and other gunsmiths have previously posted excellent opinions about the actual content of the early Thompson nickel steel parts.

Your explanation, however, concisely explains the differences between the nickel alloy steel and nickel plating that seems to cause confusion about specific parts in the early guns and drums. Good job!
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#29 OldFalGuy

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 04:03 PM

"Naturally, as they assure us, Kahr Arms is carrying on with this wonderful tradition of uncompromising quality." wink.gif

We can certainly thank our lucky stars for thier attention to quality banghead.gif

Some guys like to tinker and I applaude thier efforts for without them we might not find ways to get things fixed ourselves-
I used to be that way but nowadays I just want everything to run during those few and far between times I get to go shoot-so for me I would rather pay the piper for the good drums than wait for something blink.gif to possible not work as it should-

Mark
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#30 OldFalGuy

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 01:32 PM

Yet people buy $20,000 Thompsons, sight unseen. And they buy Kahr drums-

This is truly a puzzling conundrum we see all too often and I might add questionable ammo to the list- I understand us trying the Kahr drums there just wasn't/isn't enough of the good drums out there to satisfy our demand-but at this juncture we should know better- Heck I can't wind one of mine I tried enough to run more than 5-6 rounds and these drums were gone over by one of the good guys- I will try again this weekend.

I shudder to use the term cheap as I shoot very inexpensive 8mm through a 40K MG42- some might call it cheap at 8 cents a round vs 24+ for New manufactured stuff-
Regardless of the definitions- putting something questionable into an NFA isn't real prudent in the short or long run.
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